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Author Topic: Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108  (Read 1373 times)

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Offline asian1Topic starter

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Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108
« on: October 18, 2005, 08:15:34 PM »
Marvell had announced new Discovery V chipset for PowerPC G4 and IBM 750FL/GL series (Freescale MPC7447A/7448A and IBM750FL/GL).
The samples of this product will be available on the first quarter of 2006.
Can this product compete with Freescale 8641 System on Chip, 8641D SOC or Tundra TSI108 chipset?
What about the price/performance?

http://www.marvell.com/press/pressNewsDisplay.do;jsessionid=DVILRWe7kDm2BhrU4sPM8FnXZFqgGE3Pw1ZFmmGhYnlMzDkBOkZf!50217849?releaseID=536

"The Discovery V system controller integrates several I/O peripherals on-chip, including a DDR2 memory controller, a PowerPC CPU interface, Gigabit Ethernet, PCI-X and PCI-E bridges, storage functions, and a USB 2.0 interface. The Discovery V is software compatible with legacy Marvell Discovery system controllers, preserving the customer’s software investment while accelerating development cycles."
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2005, 09:43:21 PM »
Wow, this is good news.  How about a new Peg with one of these and a 1.7GHz MPC7448! :shocked:

As for comparisons with the 8641/8641D.  The 7448 and 8641 are both based on the PowerPC e600 core (or two of them in the D).  But the 8641 has the advantage (?) of a much faster (integrated) MPX bus.  I'm not a chip guy so on paper the 8641/8641D looks much better, but there are probably real world factors that affect it's actual performance/usability.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline billt

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Re: Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2005, 09:52:06 PM »
It certainly makes for some fun speculation doesn't it? :)

Can it compete? There's some good possibility. There's a large number of factors that end up playing a huge balancing act game for different topics such as reliability, manufacturability, performance, and price. I don't recall the 8641 having integrated USB, so you'll need at least a PCI-Express/USB bridge to add that and be more completely comparable with DiscoveryV+G4.

the G4+DiscoveryV combination, as well as G4+tsi108 combo, will have lower BGA pin densities than 8641. This means the 8641 will require smaller and closer togather PCB traces to fan out the chip to the PCB routing so it can connect to other chips. There's PCB manufacturability and yield issues that te 8641 will be harder to build, and thus somewhat lower PCB yield, and thus mroe expensive. The 8641's higher BGA density may also require more PCB layers for the BGA fanout, which again would increase cost and affect manufacturing yields since more layers means more vias, which means more opportunities for a via to go bad somewhere. And which is more engineering effort, a single chip with more and higher-density pins, or two seperate chips with lower pin density and possibly fewer PCB layers?

Though the 8641's internal MPX bus runs much faster than the external bus to either DiscoveryV or tsi108. This would theoretically offer higher performance, which would be desirable and perhaps be worth some amount of possible higher price for the single chip and more expensive PCB, compared to the G4+northbridge combo and the associated PCB price.

And then, setting aside the PCB, how will 8641 price compare to G4+DiscoveryV or G4+tsi108 combo price? Or swap the G4 for a G3 in the combos.

Some of these things aren't known yet, some can be guestimated about. If you want the smallest possible system design, 8641 is the way to go. If you want the least expensive, we don't know yet which would win.
Bill T
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 

Offline asian1Topic starter

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Re: Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2005, 10:24:30 PM »
> BGA pins problem

What if Freescale mass-manufacture 8641 or 8641D CPU module card with DIMM or SO-DIMM edge connectors?
(see ColdFire CPU module and carrier).

http://elmicro.com/en/cobra5485.php

Can this processor module solve the problem?

There is a rumor about Tundra's plan to release high end "all-in-one" PowerPC 970 SOC. Can this product compete in Price/Performance against 8641 / 8641D?
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Marvell Discovery V vs 8641 vs Tundra TSI108
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2005, 10:55:46 PM »
@billt

Actually, the 8641/8641D SoC has less pins than the MPC7448 alone.  Wouldn't this lessen the BGA fanout problems?  (Or, am I missing something entirely).

Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(