Why is there no good scandoublers to be found?

[hektic]

Not sure if this is what your after but I noticed this ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/scandoubler-ELBOX-FF-external-for-Amiga_W0QQitemZ8218758201QQcategoryZ98928QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I almost fell of my chair when I saw the price!

 :-?

[BenShep]

Tigger - you could do an internal one for the a1200, which wouldn't need a 23 pin connector (or an external casing)?

[alexh]

hektic wrote:
Not sure if this is what your after but I noticed this ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/scandoubler-ELBOX-FF-external-for-Amiga_W0QQitemZ8218758201QQcategoryZ98928QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I almost fell of my chair when I saw the price!

 :-?

But this is Martin-Flash... he buys his amiga stuff for almost nothing from poor Polish Amiga users and flogs them in the UK for 10x price

[gafstu]

Does anyone have any specs for this eyetech SD/FF?

[PaSha]

gafstu wrote:
Does anyone have any specs for this eyetech SD/FF?

It cost less than £199 brand new...
I have an early MV1200 (same thing) that needs 10 minutes to warm up before it can produce a stable picture, and then it gets insanely hot.

@all: there is a Compserv AGA Scandoubler-II for sale on german eBay, this thing is pretty good and also deinterlaces Super72 and DblPAL/DblNTSC/Multiscan, and also does PAL/NTSC SuperHiRes properly. This is an internal card for the video-slot.

-Paul

[Tigger]

bubba wrote:
Wow, congrats on building one.  What are the specs?  Can it do 24-bit color and non-15khz modes?  I'm sure the design could be refined by an electronics manufacturer for production.

I work for one of the largest electronics manufacturer (in fact we used to make most of the SMT amigas) so I'm not sure there is alot to refine.  

I'm not a electrical engineer, but these circuits look pretty simple.  I took a look at the picture of the circuit board for the DCE scan doubler and could easily google for the chips on board: a 6-bit ADC from Phillips, a 24-bit DAC, ram chips, and one mystery chip.

Depending on how they did it, some kind of FPGA to handle non-15kHz screens or a programmed PAL to do much the same thing.
15 pin to 15 pin idea is fairly clever, that would get rid of one of the possible snags, though one of the big part vendors used to stock 23's forever so that might not be an issue.  
   -Tig

[Tigger]

BenShep wrote:
Tigger - you could do an internal one for the a1200, which wouldn't need a 23 pin connector (or an external casing)?

Yeah I could, the only issue with that is that I have now cut the market to only 1200's an external could work for every amiga on the planet.  Lots of my 500's, 2K, 3K & 4ks out there and even CD32's that would probably like to run on a VGA moniter.
    -Tig

[Dr_Righteous]

@ Tig

*Mystical voice* "If you build it, we will buy.." or failing that, schematics etc would be nice. I do like the 15pin idea... Tho I would prefer one with cables as opposed to PCB soldered. Don't want my A4000 10 feet from the wall because of a huge dongle hanging off the back.

[ExtremeWays]

I've been chasing an external scan doubler for years.  Tried many a supplier.  Rare as hens teeth those beasties.

Closest I've gotten to finding a retailer is Softhut saying maybe in 2 months they'll do a new run of their design..

I already use a DCE scandoubler/flicker fixer in my A1200.  Cost me A$200, and the picture quality ain't that great, but it's better than squinting into a fading 1084s.

What sort of order numbers would you need for a production run.  Count me down for an external model, as long as the price is around the A$250/UKP100/US$150 mark.

[J-Golden]

saw this on E-bay, but it's UK only shipping  :-?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-Scan-doubler-Flicker-Fixer-Use-pc-monitors_W0QQitemZ8219199453QQcategoryZ98928QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

that aside, isn't the denise clip missing?  doesn't that make it completely useless???

J-Golden

[Darrin]

Hey Tigger,

Mark me down as interested too (for my A1200T).

[PaSha]

J-Golden wrote:
.......
that aside, isn't the denise clip missing?  doesn't that make it completely useless???

J-Golden

Nah, this version is intended for use in A1200D's, and gets the required signal(s) from the 23-pin RGB-port.

-Paul

[bubba]

One benefit of the 23-pin connector is the availability of  power off the pins.  With a VGA connector, you would need an external power source which would add to the total package cost.  Anyway, with all the A1200 power issues it might be the better design option.  

So, how much would it cost to build a prototype?  Any idea on manufacturing costs?  Someone should create a poll to see how many people would actually buy one.  

Perhaps we could start the American version of Individual Computers with this scan doubler!

[logicalheart]

  I've been quiet about something because I wanted to try it myself first and see if it really works.  But I'm not going to be trying this anytime soon so maybe someone here has already tried, or is willing to.

  Many of the "Sceptre" flat panel monitors list specifications that they sync down to 15khz.  You may be able to just use a 15-23 pin adapter and see all your screen modes.  Anyone want to try?  These monitors were sold on NewEgg, and at Sam's Club for a while, but I don't know who carries them now.   - Lars

[bubba]

This company makes a NTSC/PAL scan doubler and flicker fixer single-chip solution, the AL250, that will handle an RBG source:

http://www.averlogic.com.tw/

The input is only 16-bit RGB, so AGA would have the same quality degradation with many of the current scan doublers.  Can someone comment on the suitablility of this chip for an Amiga flicker fixer?

-bubba

[MskoDestny]

16-bit is better than what scandoublers designed for OCS/ECS can do (12-bit), but I doubt it handles all the funny resolutions the Amiga can put out.

I've got a rough design in my head for a hybrid internal/external 24-bit scandoubler.  Basically a CPLD, some SRAMS (they don't make 5V DRAMs anymore), a Triple 8-bit DAC, and a Triple 8-bit ADC and few latches and tri-state-able buffers (mostly so I don't need a CPLD with a ridiculous pin count).  The ADC and 23-pin D-Sub connector could be easily dropped to make a less expensive internal-only version (the PCB would probably still be the same unless I hand manufacture them).

Might play around with it a bit to see if I can get something working with some spare parts I have here.  Don't get your hopes up though.