Need help - want to boot my amiga HD on PC with WinUAE

[Thomas]

From your last two posts I'd rather think it's a mater of stupid-user-sitting-behind-the-keyboard than UAE being too complicated. (Don't be angry, it's meant as a joke).

However, somehow the partition table on your Quantum got damaged, making the partitions invisible by both WinUAE and the real Amiga. Then with HDToolbox you gave it the final shot by overwriting the remaining rest of the partition table.

Tools like RDB-Salv or RDBRecov will allow you to recover the partitions. Unfortunately there is no way to create an Amiga floppy disk without being able to boot the Amiga be cause the PC cannot write Amiga disks.

If you have a Kickstart file for WinUAE I could create a bootable ADF with the needed tools on it, so you can recover the data with WinUAE.

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

well, euh, yep
a little notice anyway : my Quantum HD was perfectly fonctionning since 8 years in my amiga, it's only on UAE it doenst work - and not anymore on the A1200 since yesterday ...

I found 5 installation disks, Amiga Workbench V3.0, Storage, Locale, Amiga Fonts and Amiga Extras, all v3.0 in fact
What do you mean about kickstart file ?  the bios, rom ? if yes, i downloaded the 3.0 roms, in fact, all roms

Also, i admit i never been an experimented amiga user.  I became one on PC as it's my job.  and moreover, it's old

So yes, if you can create me such a disk, but the best would be not to use UAE but boot on the amiga ... problem as u answered, PC cant write an amiga FDD disk, or is it possible once UAE is running or not too ?

Cheers & thanks

[blobrana]

You not read your personal mail?

[Thomas]

It's anyway strange, I wouldnt like to do that way.  I spent 2h searhcing for a windows utility which could make a total bytes by bytes clone of my amiga HD.  I tested almost 10 software, no one does it !

Did you try WinImage ? I know that it can at least create full disk images of Amiga formatted ZIP disks, so I imagine it should work with HDDs, too.

What do you mean about kickstart file ? the bios, rom ?

The Amiga's BIOS is called Kickstart. In fact it is not only a basic I/O subsystem but rather a big part of the operating system. So BIOS is not at all the correct word for it.

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

Thanks for all of your answers
Problem now is that im having 2 problems, and one is off-topic to the original post.

I need to repair my HD and I can only do it on my A1200.  My internal floppy FD0: is dead and FD1: is ok.  I played during +/-2h to install some of the WB in ram disk, and tried to run crossdos.  but i had problem once mounting PC1:, could not find mountinglist.  I even succeed to install DOpus 4.2 and run it, but there im stuck.  im ready to create a bootable disk with crossdos in startup-sequence and scripted mounting of PC1:, allowing me then to insert a 720ko PC disk with a HD salvage utility, but, can someone here list me the step to create this boot disk, the files I need to copy on it to have enough WB commands + crossdos + ability to mount PC1: device, and the write downe a startup-sequence i would write then ?

About my initial problem, so, as you said all, "it should work", i'll so forget to read my amiga HD on my PC.  I'll try on another one, maybe a third one.  but first, I need to retried my original HD and partitions ... if it's still possible

sorry for these longs posts (im feelink kinda noobish but sorry, havent really ever touched the OS, only a bit, and a long time ago)

Cheers

[Thomas]

You don't need to install anything. Workbench can as well be run from Floppy disk.

You say you have all five Workbench disks, but the Install disk with HDToolbox is missing.

So you should download these files:

http://www.aminet.net/search.php?query=hdinst.lha
http://www.aminet.net/search.php?query=RDBrecov.lha
http://www.aminet.net/search.php?query=lha.run

- Enable the write protection on all your original disks.
- Boot from the Workbench disk.
- Insert the Storage disk, open Storage, open DosDrivers and doubleclick PC1. (If there is no PC1 in Storage/DosDrivers, click PC0 once and choose "copy" from the menu. Click "copy of PC1" once and choose "Rename" from the menu. Rename it to PC1. Click PC1 once and choose "Information" from the menu. If there is a tooltype reading UNIT=0, change it to UNIT=1. If there is no unit tooltype, add one reading UNIT=1. If there are brackets around the tooltype, remove them.)
- You are asked to insert the Workbench disk. Do so.
- Now insert an empty floppy disk. An icon PC1:? should appear.
- Click the icon once and choose "Format Disk" from the menu.
- You are asked to insert the Workbench disk again. Do it.
- A window appears letting you to choose some options. Insert the empty disk again.
- Click on Format. Confirm that you want to format the disk and wait until it is finished.
- Now carry the empty disk to your PC and copy the downloaded archives to it.
- You need hdinst.lha, rdbrecov.lha and lha.run.
- While the PC is copying, go back to the Amiga and insert the Workbench disk.
- Select "Execute command" from the menu and enter "newshell" into the command line.
- Enter the following commands into the DOS window:

copy c:copy ram:
copy sys:system/format ram:
cd ram:

- now fetch the disk from the PC and insert it into the Amiga's drive.
- enter

copy pc1:#? ram:
lha.run

- now get another empty floppy and insert it into the drive (you can use the PC disk if you don't have another one)
- enter

format drive df1: name empty2 noicons

- press return twice.
- enter

lha x #?.lha df1:

Now the new disk contains HDInstTools which is a freeware replacement for HDToolbox and RDBrecov which is a command line utility to search partitions on a HDD. HDToolbox has an icon and can be run from Workbench. RDBrecov has to be run from the shell window. In order to read the documentation of RDBRecov enter the following command:

sys:utilities/multiview empty2:rdbrecov.guide

Note that as long as you only edit partitions, your data is safe. Use HDInsttools to create the  partitions RDBrecov has found, then reboot to see if the data is back. If not, try again. Keep away from the "DOS format" and "copy disks" buttons !!

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

Thanks for all your help Thomas
I did all you listed, until i had HDInstTool and RDBrecov in Ram.  I searched on the net to get the exact parameters of my HD, i found this :
Root Device: 800M IDE QUANTUM TRB850A
Root Size/partition table:
   Disk /dev/hda: 850 MB, 850010112 bytes
   32 heads, 63 sectors/track, 823 cylinders
   Units = cylinders of 2016 * 512 = 1032192 bytes

First strange think was that, after read the HDrecov doc, i started HDInst, he read well the HD infos, displayed, but the 6 big buttons in the bottom are greyed ...
Other think, is that my WB apparently see 2 HD, QDH0 and QDH1, but with strange names and no default tools when clicking on it and not a dos disk also.

But ok, i started RDBrecov with the following parameters and command line :
RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 823 cs 2016

It took almost 10 seconds to scan all, but it found nothing
So I have to abandon, and i don't have the courage to start re-installing my whole HD trying to have back more or less what I had before.  I had a lot of things installed on it, i customized my WB, i had MUI etc etc ... well, im gonna maybe install one on my PC with UAE, but it make me feel strange that I won't anymre type on the keyboard of my amiga (a black CDTV keyboard connected to my A1200 in fact)
Worst of all is my personal "agenda" i wrote during 2y and some other months of my life, never saved on another support, which is lost.  Yep my fault i should have backup'd it...

Game over, thanks to all for your support

Cheers

[Thomas]

No, please don't give up so soon !

RDBRecov is optimized for speed, not quality. As the docs say it was initially made for PFS and SFS, not FFS.

So please try again. Use these parameters:

RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 1646 cs 1008

If it still fails, please try this:

RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 1659168 cs 1

When it finds the first "possible FFS partiton", press Ctrl C. (Should be near cylinder 1000 or 2000, not later). Divide the "at cylinder" value by 2 and use it for CS. Then divide 1659168 by CS and use that as C.

If all fails, use these parameters:

RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 1659168 cs 1 deepffs.

It will probably need hours to read the entire HDD, but it should find everything.

Other think, is that my WB apparently see 2 HD, QDH0 and QDH1, but with strange names and no default tools when clicking on it and not a dos disk also.

When did it see these ? Before you started any recovery action ?

Bye,
Thomas

[spirantho]

Doesn't Windows have a habit of nuking the first blocks of disks it doesn't recognise? I know it used to, as it's caused a lot of corrupt hard disks by overwriting its own gunk over perfectly valid but foreign partition tables.

I can't remember if it still does that, or how to get round it, but I know in the original Siamese system which shared a SCSI chain there was something you had to be careful of to stop Windows nuking your Amiga disk.

But that's all from memory. I may be mistaken.

[Thomas]

@spirantho: you are a little late. The HDD is already damaged.

Win95/98/ME overwrite a vew bytes in the RDB making it useless for AmigaOS. But this is easy to repair and WinUAE repairs it automatically.

WinXP and 2K are the only versions with which WinUAE can access the HDD and they don't do any harm (usually).

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

When did it see these ? Before you started any recovery action ?

 Just after HDToolBox once i started WB3.0 with disks.


Anyway, good news, here's the summary i wrote on notepad :

HD infos :
823 cylindres
2016 block par cylindre (512 byte par block)

Launched the command
RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 1659168 cs 1
Here are the results :

Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 144: DosType=444F5303 (Cylindre 1, block 144)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 205200: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 101, block 1584)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 819792: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 407, block 1296)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1229616: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 609, block 1872)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1393632: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 691, block 576)

Checking FFS partitions
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 144: Size = 205056 cyls Dostype=444f5305 / Name="TITI"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 205200: Size = 614592 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TOTO"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 819792: Size = 409824 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="DATAS"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1229616: Size = 164016 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TEMP"
==> note:  must read block instead of cylinder, and the size given by rdbrecov is not correct, also, last partition name is JEUX

Calculations :
--Partition 1--
block 144 = 1st cylinder
As 2nd partition starts on cylinder 101, it makes 101-1 : SIZE = 100 cylinders / 100*2016= 201600 blocks // 201600/2 = 100.800 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 1 - Block 144

--Partition 2--
block 205200 = 205200/2016 = 101 cylinder
As 3nd partition starts on cylinder 406, it makes 406-101 : SIZE = 305 cylinders / 305*2016= 614880 blocks // 614880/2 =  307.440 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 101 - Block 1584 (205200 MOD 2016)

--Partition 3--
block 819792 = 819792/2016 = 406 cylinder
As 4th partition starts on cylinder 609, it makes 609-406 : SIZE = 203 cylinders / 203*2016= 409248 blocks // 409248/2 = 204.624 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 609 - Block 1296 (819792 MOD 2016)

--Partition 4--
block 1229616 = 1229616/2016 = 609 cylinder
As 5th partition starts on cylinder 691, it makes 691-609 : SIZE = 82 cylinders / 82*2016 = 165312 blocks // 165312/2= 82.656 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 609 - Block 1872 (1229616 MOD 2016)

--Partition 5--
block 1393632 = 1393632/2016 = 691 cylinder
As HD makes 823 cylinders, it makes 823-691 ((((( + 1 ))))) : SIZE = 133 cylinders / 133*2016= 268128 blocks // 268128/2= 134.064 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 691 - Block 576 ( 1393632 MOD 2016)

Checks:
Cylinders: 100+305+203+82+133 = 823 cylinders (823*2016*512 = 849.494.016 bytes)
Size: 100800+307440+206624+82656+134064 = 831584 ko = 851.542.016 bytes (850.010.112 bytes !?)


So correct me if my calculations are ok or not ?

Now, after this, i launched HDInstTool but it gives mi this warning : Piktogramm nicht gefunden, die Einstellungen können nicht geladen werden

The 6 buttons below are grayed.  Only if i double click on the HD it warns me he gonna all format so I click "Nein"

Hum ... is there a way to recover the partitions ?

Thanks indeed !
Alex

[vpamicue]

This would be normal as your use start up file is prob invalid with UAE, especially if you have Cybergraphics or you use special 040 library ot if you had 060, The best way would be to hold right and left mouse button down while booting and select boot without startup sequence and say ok to all exeptions you should bet to the grey screen and type loadwb. You should eventualy get to Workbench.
Of course this is if I remember correctly.

[Thomas]

==> note: must read block instead of cylinder, and the size given by rdbrecov is not correct,

The entire output is correct. You told it that one cylinder is one block, so it gives you cylinder numbers which equal block numbers

 also, last partition name is JEUX

There is a root block with the name "TEMP" in it. If there is another one with "Jeux" in it, you probably have to run RDBRecov again with more specific parameters. However you should look after that later.

So correct me if my calculations are ok or not ?

Well, your interpretation of the values is all wrong, so I didn't check the calculations which are probably correct but useless.

FFS Bootblock found at cylinder     144: Size = 205056 cyls Dostype=444f5305 / Name="TITI"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder  205200: Size = 614592 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TOTO"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder  819792: Size = 409824 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="DATAS"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1229616: Size = 164016 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TEMP"

Well, you didn't read my post very well, otherwise you wouldn't have let it get this far. I told you to interrupt it after the first possible bootblock.

Nevertheless, the data tells us all we have to know.

As the first partition always starts at cylinder 2, we now know that the partitioning program you used to partition the drive for the first time thought that one cylinder has 72 blocks. This is the value we have to calculate with.

If I divide all values by 72 we get this output:

FFS Bootblock found at cylinder     2: Size = 2848 cyls Dostype=444f5305 / Name="TITI"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder  2850: Size = 8536 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TOTO"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 11386: Size = 5692 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="DATAS"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 17078: Size = 2278 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TEMP"

Now, after this, i launched HDInstTool but it gives mi this warning : Piktogramm nicht gefunden, die Einstellungen können nicht geladen werden

If you followed my instructions to unpack the hdinst archive, go to the desktop, open the empty2 disk, open the HDInstTools drawer and double click the HDInsTtools program icon. It should start without any warning. Then choose your preferred language from the menu (default obviously is german) and make sure the automatic mode is disabled.

Now click on "Setup Drive". Enter Cylinders = 23044, Heads = 1 and Blocks Per Track = 72. Click on Use.

Now for each partition (except TEMP) click on Add Partition and then on Edit Partition. "Start Cyl" should match the "found at cylinder" value, then enter the size next to "Cylinders".

For the last partition you should try to use the entire remaining space. This is probably what you did before, too (when you replaced TEMP by Jeux).

You might want to change the file system so that the Dos Type matches that listed by RDBRecov.

Now click on Use until you are back in the main menu and click on Save Changes To Drive. You are asked if you want to reboot, click on yes.

Now all data on all partitions (perhaps except Jeux) should magically be back.

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

Well,

 I just performed all, also a rescan of rdbreco with 72 for cs parameter and 23044 for cylinders.

 The only difference is that i unpacked hdinsttolls in ram drive and ran it from there.  I had problem to format a disk, all had badblocks and no way to cancel the format (non stop retry/cancel requester), so after 3 tentatives & restart of the amiga and all the loads/copy/etc i decided to do it from ram.  I tried from the dos 720ko disk but it asked to swap disk drive with workbench non stop too, i did it almost 20x and the progression bar of hdinst. was still at 1/4

Well, there's anyway a problem
In HDInstTool i go in Setup drive, and give 23044 to cylinders, 72 to blocks per track, 1 head and 512 blocksize, didnt touch other settings and clicked USE
Now in Partition Drive section, on the Overview (the bar which show you the % of partioned parts of the HD, the numbers are left 0 (zeros) but right it's 5122.  And I think 5122 was the previous one.  In this configuration, I try a partiton of one cylinder (in the Edit partition window) and it gave 162kBytes as size, so this mean 1 cylinder = 322 blocks.

I thought i would first need to write new setup of the disk (the change of cylinders & blocks per track), so i clicked on save changes to the drive, the program warned me that this need reboot.  So i rebooted. (note that I havent added yet ANY partition or whatever)

Restart all until I come back to HDInstTools, click on setup drive to see if the parameters are well 23044 cylinders and 72 blocs per track, answer is Yes.
So i click on "Partiton Drive" and ... no luck, still displaying 0 to 5122

So, when i want to add my first partition, if I well put 2848 cylinders, start cyl at 2, then DH0 is making 461Mo, half of the HD... not good

As i rebooted using reset, i made a last test by switching off the amiga (and HD) and on.  But this didnt change anything, still giving from 0 to 5122

Last notice, I didnt touch the "File System" section of HDInst, but for test i tried to see, I added one filesystem to see the one available on my WB disk and i dont have the FFS, what I have is the following :
aux-handler
CrossDOSFileSystem
port-handler
queue-handler

But maybe we dont care at this point about filesystem ?  btw, i didnt save any more changes during these "tests"

So, what's wrong with this HD, or with HDInstTools ?

do i need to say thanks one more time ?  ;-)

[Thomas]

Yes, you are right. It seems like HDInstTools is not able to do this kind of editing. Must be a bug.

So we have to use HDToolbox. IIRC you said you have HDToolbox on one of your HDD partitions.

So run RDBRecov again with

rdbrecov cs 72 c 23044 s 512 ml ram:ml

Then enter

mount rdbr0: from ram:ml

to mount your TITI partition (use RDBR1 for TOTO, RDBR2 for DATA and so on).

The icon of the mounted partition should appear on the desktop. Open it, run HDToolbox and do all the partitioning in HDToolbox.

I added one filesystem to see the one available on my WB disk and i dont have the FFS,

Seems like FFS is only on the Install disk. But the same version also is in the Kickstart ROM, so you don't need to worry about not having any file system on the HDD.

Bye,
Thomas

[dredger]

Well, yep, i acceeded well my partitions, at least the 4th first ones
I just had to edit the mountlist (ml file) and remove the lines "SectorsPerBlock"

But ... yep there's a but ... hdtoolbox seem also a bit bugged

In HDToolbox i have the definitions of my drive (2 drives in fact i had a scsi in the past).  For the Quantum, i rewrite all the parameters, and it's now that's it's strange :
Cylinders: 23044
Heads: 1
BpTrack: 72
BpCylinder:512

First strange think is "Block per Cylinder", i assume they mean the blocksize !?
Anyway, i enter these values in order, and i read the summary of the Size which indicates 829548k (810 Meg)
I click on ok, do you want to overwrite it, yep, click on Continue.  i come back in the select a drive window i click on ok and here's what he tells me :

Warning! The drive type you selected has 11798528 blocks, while the drive itself has only 1660176 blocks.  Are you SURE you want to continue?

 In the doubt i click cancel (i tested to click on continue once and he gives another warning).  So i click cancel, i click "Edit Old" to re-edit the parameters of the HD and what do i see !? the size has changed to 1704704k, 1664Meg !?  And the datas i entered before (the cylinders, heads, BpTrack and BpCylinder) are still the right ones i entered !?  Even stranger, i just clic in cylinders but change no value, i push TAB (the focus goes in the Heads box, i still do not change anything, i push again TAB so the focus goes in the Blocks per Track box and at this moment, the size went from the 1704704k to 829548k !?  One more TAB to go in Block per Cylinder, still the same, and one more TAB to go in "Park Head..." (which is at 23044 btw) and the zize comes back to 1704704k ....

Is also my HDToolbox bugged !?

I even have disksalv (v2) and it ran well, i even scanned my DH0 and no errors on it, but it doesnt propose me to write the settings to the HD
At least, i also found ExpertPrep from the old GVP; but it did not grand enough options to set all i want, no way to change the numbers of cylinder or the blocksize

Anyway, I saved the mountlist directly on my WB disk ...

And a GREAT THANKS because i can already find back my files ... ouf ...