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Offline amigakit

Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2005, 01:51:58 PM »
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Offline _ThEcRoW

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2005, 02:08:37 PM »

"hurting the few remaining Amiga developers and retailers"
What????. In what manner is harming the amiga developers?. How many comercially games for the classic amiga are being developed lately? and i´m not saying about quakes or pc conversions, i refer to original amiga games. Well the answer is nothing. Those classic floppy games are long time shelf out of the shops and developers don´t care about them, indeed, they leave the amiga long time ago so copying these games isn´t hurting anyone. At the other end i think that if the copy of the games is sold for the cost of storage media, who cares?.
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Offline Coolit

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2005, 02:16:32 PM »
I think regardless if it’s hurting anyone, selling copied software for profit is illegal unless you have permission of the software author and that’s exactly how the law would see it.

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Offline TheMagicM

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2005, 02:34:20 PM »
thecrow: thats exactly how I feel.

AndreasM: your situation is different.. you're still developing software and selling it now so thats different.

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Offline amigamad

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2005, 02:47:44 PM »
Being honest i doubt they will do anything for pirated amiga software, they only do something if its a big company like microsoft so they dont get sued .Now if that was pirate mp3 cd,s they would ban him straight away, i know i reported someone that sold some after they did not do nothing to the same seller for selling pirate amiga cd,s.
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Offline AndreasM

Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2005, 03:32:28 PM »
@TheMagicM

>AndreasM: your situation is different.. you're still developing software and selling it now so thats different.

not really. the users, shop, auctions dont make any difference between old or new software.

exampole a englisch company where makes "Classic Collecstion". 2 DVDs with many illegal copies. included 7 illegal copies from our software. and write on the cover and page that the company are the rightholders from all software on the dvds. sell it to dealer and there sell it on ebay. i close in the last months mor as 300 auctions with thsi dvds worldwide and delete some powersellers from ebay.

i think this company in Swindon sells 1.000+ copies from this dvd set. every set for Euro 20+

now teher have a porblem with many dealers, police and our lawyer :)

or a whdload pirate page. spread 2 games from us 1+ year. now there become a visit from the police and when i have a little time we close the page...

we release only one game in some weeks. all other games have we cancel for amiga and we dont start to develope news games for the amiga. to many illegal copies and (!) to many users where say that is ok to make illegal copies.

@amigamad

everybody can what do again the pirate copies. dont accept pirate users. dont support pirate users!

@boing

yes and no. a hardware need many software. pirate copies is a point that the users buy the hardware. but the last years is the amiga place very small. now the pirate copies make a new problem. many pirate copies = low sell rate = no new software for the amiga. in this point is it correct when a user say "pirate copies damage the amiga".

and users dojt make any different between old non supportet software and new software. example planetemu, amiga nostalgia, amiga4u, spaceballs, amiag dream, rommania, eggmans, total emulation, EAB, goldflesh, killergoria and and and (and some pages dont exits in the future :)))



btw. i know, my english is very bad :)))
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Offline CyberusTopic starter

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2005, 03:43:42 PM »
Quote

boing wrote:
Oh. My. Dog.  You must be kidding.

Here we see another over-reaction from a person who really believes the lie that "piracy killed the Amiga".  It was malfeasance and stupid managers who killed the company.  Piracy probably helped as much as hurt.  A lot of people got Amigas based upon some nifty programs they could get copies of.

Anyway, why would anybody care about this?  Is the software on ebay still being developed?  No.  Still being supported?  Still being produced?  If it was new software, I could see the concern.  But it's not.



Well - it seems that you were wrong on most of these premises, as Andreas has testified...
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Offline krize

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2005, 03:58:47 PM »
AndreasM: This witchhunt you are doing are only damaging your reputation in the amiga scene, dragging people to court over this is very lame ..

Release some new games and we will see, dont come here and say the old: piracy is to much on the amiga..The problem now is that it is not enough users (even to pirate IMO!!) ..

Do you think you can stop pirating, or do you only want more money ??
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Offline krize

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2005, 04:00:29 PM »
AndreasM: This witchhunt you are doing are only damaging your reputation in the amiga scene, dragging people to court over this is very lame ..

Release some new games and we will see, dont come here and say the old: piracy is to much on the amiga..The problem now is that it is not enough users (even to pirate IMO!!) ..

Do you think you can stop pirating, or do you only want more money ??
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Offline CyberusTopic starter

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2005, 04:09:10 PM »
I still think, that if I had spent days or months of my time working on something, staying up late, not going out and socialising, basically pouring my blood, sweat and tears into it, I would be mightily peeved if I saw someone else with a DVD burner making the money out of it.

Back in the day, we would call these people 'lamers'


I'm not saying that we should find every pirate and burn them at the stake, or that we should get up tight about a copy of Lemmings being bundled with an Amiga sold on eBaY, but making a reasonable amount of cash out of someone else's work, when they are not is just WRONG. I know everyone has different ethics, but I am very firm on this.
I'm not going to get into a deep conversation about whether piracy killed the Amiga. But I do know one thing, which I think is a great analogy....

After the revolution in Russia, the Bolsheviks requisitioned grain from the kulaks to feed the workers in the cities. So the kulaks, near destitute themselves, tending their fields got no money for their year's work.
The Bolsheviks went back the following year to requisition more grain for the workers in the cities. And guess what? The farmers hadn't bothered growing any. Why blame them, no idiot is going to work for a year so some city-dweller can come along and forcibly take the fruits of their labours from them....
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Offline amigakit

Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2005, 04:20:09 PM »
@Cyberus

I agree with your comment - it is spot on.

As an example, small companies like Cloanto invest a lot of money , time and effort to bring us products like the Amiga Forever and it is pirated wholesale on Ebay.  

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Offline AndreasM

Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2005, 05:30:32 PM »
>This witchhunt you are doing are only damaging your reputation in the amiga scene, dragging people to court over this is very lame ..

????

>Release some new games and we will see, dont come here and say the old: piracy is to much on the amiga..The problem now is that it is not enough users (even to pirate IMO!!) ..

NO, we dont start to develope new games!

yes, is correct. not enough users. but more as enough pirate pages. and enough users where buy illegal CDs and DVDs :(

>Do you think you can stop pirating, or do you only want more money ??

only want more money? hmm, do you like develope a game for us... for free?

sure we cant not stop the pirates. but we can make her life stronger. special pirates who make money with the illegal copies.
Andreas Magerl
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Publisher for Amiga Software, Merchandising and many more.

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Offline Rooster

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2005, 06:27:44 PM »
"hurting the few remaining Amiga developers and retailers"
What????. In what manner is harming the amiga developers?. How many comercially games for the classic amiga are being developed lately? and i´m not saying about quakes or pc conversions, i refer to original amiga games. Well the answer is nothing. Those classic floppy games are long time shelf out of the shops and developers don´t care about them, indeed, they leave the amiga long time ago so copying these games isn´t hurting anyone. At the other end i think that if the copy of the games is sold for the cost of storage media, who cares?.

-----------------------

In addition to this quote from someone on page1, which I generally agree with, lemme add a few things for you all to chew on...

1.  I am against software pirating, be that known first and foremost.

2.  I am also a semi-avid collector/enjoyer of my Amiga's, them currently being an A500 (with a bunch of addons) and an A2000 (also with a bunch of addons).  

For my 'era' of the Amiga, there were no CD-ROMS.  All games were distributed via 3.5 floppy.  My Amiga 500 and parts have been sitting until just this past few months, where I bought my A2k at a yard sale, and unearthed (dug out of the closets) all my A500 stuff.  This brings me to the next point.

3.  The "AVERAGE" lifespan of a floppy disc is 10 years.  

And I was quite pleased to see that 99% of my discs still work fine.  There were some, luckily nothing important right now, that in fact were bad.  Magnetic media, as used on a floppy again, has a 10 year lifespan.  The FIRST thing I've been working on doing is copying/cloning EVERY SINGLE DISC I OWN to ensure that they will continue 'living' on.  I paid for them, and I'll be damn certain that they continue working.  

That gets us to the gray area..  Selling them..  How would I, an average guy here, treat that auction?  Well, first off, I'm in luck because it's not a title I am looking for :)  However, if it were I'd look a a couple things.  First, his history..  Has he sold this game on ebay before?  Does he, in fact think he's a software publisher, copying and selling other people's works?  Has he done it in the past with other titles, and what were the conditions there?

I know this statement might not be popular.  HOWEVER.  Sometimes you are going to have to factor in real-life factors into the equation.  It's not like you can go out and buy the game in a legit way.  The pub. co. is gone, the software maker co. is gone.  Just because the "NAME" "AMIGA" is still in existance, means nothing.  It is not the same co. as it was, nor do they cater to "our day".  And, unless Amiga/Commodore Published the game, even they do not control the software made/sold/created for it.  So, weigh your factors.  How close till Ami software of that generation is public domain?  Is there anyone publishing the game so you can buy it?  How long has it been since the game was made/will the original media still work?

Practically every auction has a clause in it "worked last time I used it" or something similar, relating to the whole media age thing..  Why do you think that is.  In the blink of an eye your floppy which is possibly 20 years old could fail.  

If you (you, the general public reading this, not any one person in particular) are so set in your ways, and cannot possibly consider accepting someone selling copied media, remember how you feel on the day that you need your Workbench 2.x disks, only to find one o fthem bad.  Contact Commodore/Amiga for your replacement disk.  And let me know if you get one from them, because God knows I, or many other people will need them here in time to come.

The other "right" thing to do would be this.  Take it apon yourself to create a foundation which will/can legally buy the rights to all Amiga (Commodore era) games/programs.  Your foundation could then reproduce ALL sofrtware, legally.  And your foundation could then track down the programmers for all that software and give them their..  ..whatever it's called for actors and programmers after their product is out and checks continue to come in..  Word escapes me but you know what I mean..  That would be the ultimate thing to do.  Would certainly keep the Amiga era ALIVE and legal.  Yet, to my knowledge, no one has, or is doing that.  Someone needs to get hot on what could be a great idea.

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Offline Doobrey

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2005, 06:35:40 PM »
Quote

krize wrote:
AndreasM: This witchhunt you are doing are only damaging your reputation in the amiga scene, dragging people to court over this is very lame ..


How the hell is it damaging his reputation?
You expect him to just roll over and let other people rip off his work for their own profit?
Sorry but the only lame thing is stupid attitudes like yours. There's precious few developers left in the Amiga scene, we don't needs pirates or morons driving the rest of them away.
 
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Offline Rooster

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2005, 06:42:01 PM »
@Andreas

You are one of the people who my post does not quite fit.  Althoguh your site is German (I'm a silly American who knows little of other languages) I do belive when you said you make one product for the Amiga, you mean the newer ones.  

Even if that is not the case, and you do make product for the "classic Amigas" as some call them, keep in mind your company DOES in fact exist, and we CAN buy it from you.  As I mentioned, I refer to strictly companies who have dissolved/disappeared/left the scene way back when the Amiga "faded away".  Just clarifying that so that you understand. I in no way condone priacy.  What I do condone is the continuation of product.  I do not believe that someone's work should simply disappear from the face of the Earth just because the media cannot sustain it life.  I'm not saying it's right to take 1 copy (the original) and make 5000 copies and sell em.  But I am saying if you hold 1 legal copy, be it from ebay or the original company 20 years ago, no matter whether it's on original media or not, you retain the right to that software..  Which would include moving it to newer media to allow it to continue to work.  Until you sell it, of course, which then you would surrender your rights to the software.  If that makes any sense at all..

All that aside, legal questions for anyone out there who knows.  This topic got me curious.  How many years in fact must pass for software to become public domain, assuming the company did not set it so when they shutdown/closed?  And is there a list of such titles/companies anywhere?

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Offline Magic-Merl

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Re: Reporting pirates on eBay
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 18, 2005, 06:52:34 PM »
You know.  Generally I have very little to say on the forums.  I have been registered for about 3/4 years but I have to say.

People.  get a life.

What can you get off e-bay that you can't get through e-mule, Warez or Back to the Roots.

P-lease.

Sometimes.  Just sometimes.  Ignorance is bliss.