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Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Cannot format SCSI disk
« on: July 08, 2005, 07:40:29 PM »
I bought an A2000HD today. It has an A2091 SCSI controller with a Quantum 40MB HD and an A2052 RAM-card. It booted OK a few times but now I get checksum-errors. Tried to format the disk. All seems to go well, but after rebooting nothing has changed. I cannot write to disk, nor format it. Can read only.
Is this disk dead?
 

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2005, 01:23:40 PM »
OK, the A2000 (OS2.04) had 2 disks so I removed the faulty one (Wow, faaast are these SCSI's!).
But now I have a weird problem: If I run any program and want to open a file, the A2000 guru's.
If I try to use CrossDOS on DF0: the machine crashes on inserting any disk in PC0:
 

Offline Tahoe

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2005, 01:25:26 PM »
Checked the battery for leaking?
Reinstalled the drive?
Pushed on all socketed IC's including the RAM on the RAM board(s)?
Greetings from Wilnis, The Netherlands
Now owning ALL Amiga models and most; if not all; flavours of them...My Amiga Museum
 

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2005, 01:33:01 PM »
Quote

Tahoe wrote:
Checked the battery for leaking? Yes OK.
Reinstalled the drive? Yes, OK.
Pushed on all socketed IC's including the RAM on the RAM board(s)? I will do that.
 

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2005, 02:51:40 PM »
I installed Workbench 2.1 on this sytem. When I install the libs of Workbench 2.05 I can open files from programs (different ASL.library?).

The CrossDOS-problem is solved by installing CrossDOS-Plus.

Now trying to get my bridgeboard going...
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2005, 02:55:27 PM »
Hi

These Quantums are very old and given that its a 40mb makes it probably the original, so failure is likely given the masses of use of a very small drive. One word of warning and that relates to formatting. I trust you didn`t low level format the drive from the toolbox.

You simply right click on the icon and format. You will need your install disks. Also the 2000 was the most widely modified and upgraded of the Commodore range so check the ROM, cus they started on the older 1.3 version Workbench.
2.05 requires the ROM upgrade you can`t use this with the 2.04 ROM. Version 2.05 was released for the A600 and 2.04 was supplied with the A500+ and A3000. You will appreciate that the later Workbench's needed the hardware fix.

The hard disk isn`t mounted on the card with this version so just check the seating. I`m guessing there is some battery leakage, which may not be first evident. There are plenty of examples of such things on my website, including battery probs with the A2000.

http://www.scuzz.org.uk/amiga/a_amiga_inframe.htm

If the machine was playing up like this when you got it then it will be difficult to track down the specific probs. Best bet is to fire up on the floppy disks and see if she runs properly and detects the hard drives. The PC0 isn`t that relevant at this time. Could be an incorrectly set up DOS driver Tooltype.

Anyway have fun with your A2000HD. Getting rare. What was the other drive, and how was it mounted.

scuzz
http://www.scuzz.org.uk/amiga/a_amiga_inframe.htm

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2005, 03:35:57 PM »
Thanks for all your information.
The A2091 had the Quantum on the card itself. I replaced it by the second harddrive: a Digital RZ23L of 120MB. It was mounted under the diskdrives with brackets. I did lowlevel format this drive. Shouldn't I have done that?
Anyway, it works OK now.
Because I didn't have the complete 2.05 install disks, I only replaced the libraries. The rest remains 2.1. That worked for the 'Open file' problem. ROM is 37.175.

The battery is not leaking. Even the time is retained.

BTW: Nice site you've got! And fast! Running on an Amiga 060?
 

Offline melott

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2005, 05:19:45 PM »
Quote

scuzzb494 wrote:
Hi
 I trust you didn`t low level format the drive from the toolbox.
-----------------
I always Low Level format my drives.
Those old 40 meg Quantums are very slow, also it could
be just a bad drive.

------------------
quote
2.05 requires the ROM upgrade you can`t use this with the 2.04 ROM.
-----------------

Sure you can ...
You can run any OS ver 2.xx on the 2.04 rom.
I have run 2.04, 2.05 and now 2.1 OS on my A2k
with the 2.04 rom
Stealth ONE  8-)
 

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2005, 05:55:51 PM »
Quote

------------------
quote
2.05 requires the ROM upgrade you can`t use this with the 2.04 ROM.
-----------------

Sure you can ...
You can run any OS ver 2.xx on the 2.04 rom.
I have run 2.04, 2.05 and now 2.1 OS on my A2k
with the 2.04 rom

If I use 2.1 completely, I get the Open file-problems described in my third mail. Probably it's the ASL.library that is giving problems.
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2005, 07:27:49 PM »
Hi

Sorry for misleading the guy it wasn`t intentional I can assure you. I do apologise for making such rash statements, but in the face of someone who is obviously struggling with first Amiga basics I thought it better to be blunt, and try and steer him clear of one or two obvious pitfalls. Anyway you are absolutely correct in what you say, but if you will permit I would like to make one or two tiny observations, which I hope are correct. Feel free to throw anything else into the pot if I`m getting confused again.

You are correct that 2.1 can be used with the 2.04 ROM, as I am sure 2.05 can. Saying that 2.1 was a software update for either 2.04 or 2.05. In respect of 2.05 this was brought out primarily for the A600 to give support for internal IDE and PCMCIA. There were three kickstart versions of the 2.05 and there were issues of drive sizes supported for each. Some A600s were shipped without the 2.05 ROMS and these had no support for hard drives over 40MB. I just felt that in discussing the issues of hard drives it would be prudent to raise the campatibility of ROMS and drives. This way new guys won`t waste time and money trying to fit megga drives to systems that can't take it. As I say, just my thoughts.

My advise from my earlier post should have been more specific in respect of reasoning, and I agree to the inaccuracies but I would still hold that you should use the software that was shipped with the ROM. More of a guide than a rule.

As to low level formatting.... interesting. I am holding in my hand a 4.3 Seagate SCSI drive that I use as a paper weight cus it is of no use to man nor beast cus of the dreaded Low Level Format. Whilst I agree that LLF can work on older drives, and loads of new drives simply ignore LLF you give the false impression that there are no risks to LLF. I suggest those reading this go on a search for detail on the web and see what others say. Newer drives are factory formatted and this data can be destroyed by LLF.

In this instance the gentleman concerned has his drive on the machine and I assume he has an icon there. So why not simply format the drive with the software rather than risk anything. At least with my solution he wasn`t gonna destroy the disk. Sounds like that may have just happened. What do you think ... ?

Anyway, I`m a bit of a newbie to these Forums, and haven`t really got the knowledgebase to advise too much but I would have thought the following would be helfull. It's what I would do.

a: Check the ROM to see which version. Thats easy. Disable the hard drive and see what comes on the screen when you start up. Or check from the pull down menu if the hard drive boots into the OS for the version.

b: Boot from the Workbench disk for the ROM ie 2.04 to see if the hard drives are being detected and check with the software for hard drive failure with the verification tools.

c: If the drive is causing great problems then Format from the Workbench menu and re-install the 2.04 OS.

d: If the 2.04 worked fine then consider updating to the 2.1.

One other thing we failed to mention is that the A2090 or A2094 came with Hard Disk Software. And I guess this guy hasn`t got that. Fortunately I do so I may be able to help.

I do believe that they made a 2.05 ROM for the A2000. Managed to track an advert down on the web. Not sure they are still about. Dunno.

Anyway, all comments appreciated. I do apologise again to the guy with the problem for my inaccuracies. And trust me I`m not being sarcastic... I`m just new to this Amiga Forum.

Cuppa tea me thinks.

scuzz

Offline leofoeTopic starter

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2005, 09:40:02 PM »
Quote

As to low level formatting.... interesting. I am holding in my hand a 4.3 Seagate SCSI drive that I use as a paper weight cus it is of no use to man nor beast cus of the dreaded Low Level Format. Whilst I agree that LLF can work on older drives, and loads of new drives simply ignore LLF you give the false impression that there are no risks to LLF. I suggest those reading this go on a search for detail on the web and see what others say. Newer drives are factory formatted and this data can be destroyed by LLF.

I understand, but why do the manuals and the help functions nevertheless advise LLF?

Quote

In this instance the gentleman concerned has his drive on the machine and I assume he has an icon there. So why not simply format the drive with the software rather than risk anything. At least with my solution he wasn`t gonna destroy the disk. Sounds like that may have just happened. What do you think ... ?

I did the LLF after it was faulty, not before.

Quote

a: Check the ROM to see which version. Thats easy. Disable the hard drive and see what comes on the screen when you start up. Or check from the pull down menu if the hard drive boots into the OS for the version.

It's 37.175. That's 2.04, right?

Quote

d: If the 2.04 worked fine then consider updating to the 2.1.

I did that in the first place, but it is faulty (with the other (Digital) drive) in some respects (opening files).

Quote

One other thing we failed to mention is that the A2090 or A2094 came with Hard Disk Software. And I guess this guy hasn`t got that. Fortunately I do so I may be able to help.

What does this software do?

Quote

I do believe that they made a 2.05 ROM for the A2000. Managed to track an advert down on the web. Not sure they are still about. Dunno.

I don't know either.

Quote

Anyway, all comments appreciated. I do apologise again to the guy with the problem for my inaccuracies. And trust me I`m not being sarcastic... I`m just new to this Amiga Forum.

No problem.

I would advise to read posts well before reacting.
I am in Amiga's for 20 years. But SCSI, that's new to me.

Leo
 

Offline melott

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2005, 10:00:00 PM »
@Scuzz

No Problem .. I was just pointing out that your statements
were inaccurate.

As far as OS 2.1 is concerned, as long as its a true copy
of OS 2.1 it should work. On my A2k I run OS 2.1 with the
2.04 rom. (I don't own a 2.05 rom) I had no problems
whatever installing it.

As for the SCSI drive, well that deponds on the rom version
on the card. On my A2091 card I have ver 6.1 roms and it
will handle up to a 1 gig drive (maybe more but not 2.1
gigs). Some of the earlier A2091 cards had earlier versions
of roms and may not support drives up to 1 gig (I don't
know, I haven't tried it). The A2091 card is supposed to
support drives up to 4 gigs with the version 7.0 roms but
I don't have a set of those roms so I can't verify that.
I'm looking for a set of the 7.0 roms to buy. (hard to find)

As for your 4.3 gig drive you won't get it to work unless
you switch to a different file system. The FastFile system
of OS 2.xx to OS 3.1 will only support upto a 4 gig drive.
So 4.3 gig is too big and it won't format it. However if
you upgrade to OS 3.5 or 3.9 then you should have no
problems with the 4.3 gig drive.(you need 3.1 roms to
upgrade to OS 3.5 or 3.9)
If you really want to use the 4.3 gig drive you could
try switching to 'SmartFile System' on Aminet. I haven't
tried it but many here on A.Org have and say it works
quite well.
Stealth ONE  8-)
 

Offline Doobrey

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Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2005, 10:45:49 PM »
Quote

scuzzb494 wrote:

 Some A600s were shipped without the 2.05 ROMS and these had no support for hard drives over 40MB. I just felt that in discussing the issues of hard drives it would be prudent to raise the campatibility of ROMS and drives. This way new guys won`t waste time and money trying to fit megga drives to systems that can't take it.


Just for the record, the scsi.device for the A600 won't affect the A2000 as it won't run if it can't find the A600's Gayle. Any limitations of drive sizes will come from the ROM on the scsi card.

Quote

Cuppa tea me thinks.

Yeah, milk  and two sugars please..got any hobnobs? :-)
On schedule, and suing
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2005, 11:44:58 PM »
Hi

I got A2000s running all manner of OSs from the 1.3 to the 2.1 and with hard drives using an A2090 card along with GVP SCSI controllers with Quantums. I even have two 1500s, each with SCSI controllers and disks. Never had a problem. The A2090 card is actually the A2094 with the auto booting ROMS and thats an actual A2000HD. Nice machine.

The Seagate was just destroyed. It had nothing to do with OS. I have two external SCSI boxes on a 1200 running 3.9 with the 3.1 ROMS but the process killed the drive. I understand the .3 bit not being seen and also have another unit in a tower running 3.1 that has that bit conveniently ignored by the format. You can get round it.

I have all manner of SCSI devices running off SCSI Blizzard kits on three 1200s so I am well versed in SCSI. I also got two systems running on the Squirrel, but I prefer the hardwire to the card to be honest.

SCSI is a very good way to run kit. My A4000T is all SCSI.

Anyway , enjoyed the post.

scuzz

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Cannot format SCSI disk
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2005, 12:08:22 AM »
Hi

I`m sorry its just that you started your post with the statement I bought an A2000HD today. Twenty years, that takes you to the birth of the Amiga and the A1000. So what have you been running all these years. Amazing that you haven`t come across SCSI before.

LLF, is advised in the Amiga manual but every Amiga article I have read in magazines and the like advised against it and I guess other than the odd occasion with a PC drive I have never needed to do it. The drive you have is already formatted to Amiga standard so you really only need to format it through the drop down menu. 40MB is a very small drive so no partitioning will be required.

Check the drive first for errors.

You say faulty. How faulty. Was it making a noise or were there just check sum errors. I`ll have to scan through your posts. If checksum errors then just format as I say.


Workbench Release 2.04 , v37.67 (Kickstart v37.175)
Release date: Late October 1991 New ROM (512KB) and software
Shipped with the Amiga 500+, 3000, and available as update

Did you get the drive working under 2.04 ?

With regard to the software that came with the A2090 and a and b  versions ( A2094 ), it preps the drive in respect of the card. Bit like Faaastprep on the GVP Series II SCSI controller and drive. SCSI devices have to be mounted and this software will set up your Amiga to do this. The HDToolbox can be modded to read SCSI devices specifically by setting the Unit Address number and Even LUN to search for.

Sorry, if I offended, but there was no way I could have known you were an Amiga veteran from your post. Again sorry. I`m no veteran I`ve only been using the Amiga since about 1992, but I do have a version of pretty well every model.

All the best. And have fun

scuzz