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AuthorTopic: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o  (Read 5286 times)

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Offline Cymric

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2005, 09:59:34 PM »
The biggest loser of this shift in core CPU usage is plain Linux.

People buying x86-compatible hardware did, until yesterday, have two choices: Windows or Linux. Windows came with the greedy hand of Microsoft, Linux came with the nerdy hand of an army of old-school hackers who couldn't agree on which hand to wipe their a55 with if their life depended on it. Now users have a truly viable alternative: the userfriendliness of OSX.

I predict a devastating blow to the market share of plain Linux, and a tremendous increase in productivity to get open source applications ported to OSX. No more arguments about Gnome or KDE, either: it will be OSX's GUI first, and the rest later. And who needs the rest save for those who want to be different and not want to think like the crowd? The role of Linux will dwindle, save for a testing ground for old schoole hackers who shun the idea of capitalism and monoculture. Within years, Linux will be once again stuck in the dark, fiery caves where it was forged all those years ago. It will be tended to by a small contigent of loyal fundamentalistic priests.

On the other hand, given the prolific rise in availability of open source applications which, thanks to OSX's Unix core, will compile effortlessly without too many changes, will have senior Microsoft execs wetting themselves for many months and years to come. Linux was viewed as a potential threat, more-or-less-ignored-but-still-in-Bill's-Book-of-Bad-Stuff; Apple on i86 is much, much worse; probably written down somewhere in Bill's-Book-of-Nightmare-Scenarios.

Of course, this is all provided Apple can succeed in the move from PPC to x86. Which I am quite sure will happen without too much trouble. Loyal fans have nowhere to go, and even they must realise the tremendous potential of this idea. Steve Jobs has not been smart over the years; this move however, is majestic.
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2005, 10:01:03 PM »
I don't know what to make of the impact this will have on computing in general, but I want to know where I can get ahold of whatever Jobs is smoking:
Quote
When we look at future roadmaps, mid-2006 and beyond, we see PowerPC gives us 15 units of perfomance per watt, but Intel's roadmap gives us 70.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Intel's x86 chips are the least efficient, hottest, most power-hungry electronics on the market.

Maybe by performance per watt he meant performance per dollar. That's certainly true.
 

Offline glitch

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2005, 10:03:05 PM »
What from the unix world could be compiled to run on x86-OSX that would make Bill wizz his pants?  Mathmatica?

Based on the recent tests that have been done that proves OS X blows as a server, I don't think Bill's got much to worry about.  OS X skin on Linux - Bill would have something to worry about, but not with Mach/BSD trappings under the hood.  I think it would be very easy for MS to squash Apple if the antitrust regulators would let them get away with it.  Look at their Connectix purchase - it's like a cat playing with a ball of yarn.

-G
 

Offline sir_inferno

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2005, 10:07:32 PM »
Quote

glitch wrote:
Jobs is a freaking idiot.  Nobody is going to buy any Macs for the next year.  He easily just lost half of his loyal fanbase.


sounds like an amiga management style move to me :-D

Quote


Anyone want to buy a Mac mini?

-G


no thanks
 

Offline Cymric

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2005, 10:08:45 PM »
Quote
glitch wrote:
What from the unix world could be compiled to run on x86-OSX that would make Bill wizz his pants?  Mathmatica?

Considering your quite limited view on Unix software, I will not dignify you with an answer.
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
 

Offline glitch

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2005, 10:09:33 PM »
Not to get pissy, but give me some examples???

-G
 

Offline Tomas

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2005, 10:11:34 PM »
But what will they do about backwards compitability with older software?? cannot be easy to get everyone to recompile/port older software to x86? And i cannot believe that emulation of ppc software will be very efficient.
 

Offline sir_inferno

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2005, 10:13:11 PM »
Quote

Matt_H wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Intel's x86 chips are the least efficient, hottest, most power-hungry electronics on the market.


when you see things like this, you certainly think so:

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMjE3
 

Offline glitch

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2005, 10:13:28 PM »
They are going to run a PPC emulator called "Rosetta" on the x86 version.  Great.  Now we've got x86 OSX running a PPC emulator which in theory for alot of users could then be running the OS 9 68K emulator as well...

-G
 

Offline jutrem

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2005, 10:24:34 PM »
  This is a well timed win for Intel. They had to "answer back " because IBM/Power PC has been getting all the attention recently.  Apple (Jobs) did not like the fact that they would not be IBM's top PPC customer anymore.They would be 4'th to 5'th after IBM, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo. Intel will be losing IBM x86 business during the same 2006-7 period that Apple will ship Intel systems(I know Leveno will still be around, but no IBM name). Apple actually hindered PPC adoption and development by
 - ending Mac clones.
 - artificially inflating hardware prices. They were getting G4/G5 for the same prices as comparable Intel P4 models.
 - OS X/Mac OS was seen as the only OS solution. OS X is great, but now there other PPC OS options. Microsoft has been keeping up Windows on PPC just like Apple kept OS X on Intel up to date. Other OS:Linux, Amiga OS4, MorphOS etc.
 - Absorbing most of the high end PPC CPU production.

 Apple have gone from a big fish in the overflowing PPC pond to a small fish in the x86 ocean. Their branding and unique case designs will help them survive. The OS will not be affected. When I saw Windows NT demoed in ~1995 on similar PPC and Pentium systems it visually looked the same. It worked the same and ran the same programs. You had to be told what CPU was in the case. They both looked like clone PC's.

   The desktop is important for marketing. Users know what CPU is in their desktop PC, not what CPU is the Server their connected to, or what CPU is in their game console/set top box. The PPC market is stronger now, then last year when Apple and IBM were the only major players. The quickest way for PPC to get back on the desktop is the availability of systemboards and CPU's to the public. IBM has to lead/help here. They have Power/PPC systemboards(yes I work with their servers). Eyetech and Genesi have the right idea but not the budget to make it affordable. They also don't have the name to stand behind.

 
 

Offline T_Bone

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2005, 10:32:13 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
@Self

Bye bye OS4, bye bye MorphOS.

Hello AROS?


Helloooooooooooo!

(You must imagine the soundbite from the Seinfeld episode with the talking Belly-Button)
 :lol:
this space for rent
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2005, 10:32:47 PM »
Quote

Cymric wrote:
The biggest loser of this shift in core CPU usage is plain Linux.

People buying x86-compatible hardware did, until yesterday, have two choices: Windows or Linux. Windows came with the greedy hand of Microsoft, Linux came with the nerdy hand of an army of old-school hackers who couldn't agree on which hand to wipe their a55 with if their life depended on it. Now users have a truly viable alternative: the userfriendliness of OSX.

I predict a devastating blow to the market share of plain Linux, and a tremendous increase in productivity to get open source applications ported to OSX. No more arguments about Gnome or KDE, either: it will be OSX's GUI first, and the rest later.


I think you're missing the point. There is nothing to indicate OSX will be availablr for anything except Apple computers, regardless of processor.

Also, even if OSX is available to all x86 type systems, it isn't open source and never will be. There will always be a niche for free open source alternatives. Linux hasn't got to where it is by offering a better desktop than Windows, so I don't see the arrival of MacOSX as being particularly threatening. Commercial developers will post to MacOSX first, but they do that already. Open source developers will keep doing what they are doing now.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline sir_inferno

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2005, 10:38:06 PM »
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
@Self

Bye bye OS4, bye bye MorphOS.

Hello AROS?


Helloooooooooooo!

(You must imagine the soundbite from the Seinfeld episode with the talking Belly-Button)
 :lol:


 :lol:

Helloooooooooooo! La la laaaaaaaaaaa
 

Offline T_Bone

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2005, 10:43:07 PM »
Quote

Doobrey wrote:
Quote

glitch wrote:
Jobs is a freaking idiot.  Nobody is going to buy any Macs for the next year.  He easily just lost half of his loyal fanbase.


Maybe even longer than that.
Why didn't they switch to Intel when OSX came out ?


Promises from IBM that they could ramp up clockspeeds?

Quote
All their happy users upgrading to OSX, paying for new/updated software to run on it, only to be told that they'll have to do it all again in a couple of years as PPC software dries up.


I've heard "This will piss the developers off" but in light of the fact they'll probably resell a bunch of their software, this will probably be offset.

Quote
I'd love to be there when Jobs realises there's a limit to how much you can push your customers.


Customers are screaming for faster hardware, Apple was in turn screaming to IBM, IBM was in turn masterbating or playing tetris or anything else that doesn't include answering the cries for speed. This change is a response to the customers screams.
 
Quote
Great, there's a PPC emulator for the Intel boxes, but whats the point in buying a faster mac if it runs all your existing software at the speed of your old one? ..at least with OS4/MorphOS the 68k code ran faster.


Why emulate? This isn't really a big deal, MacOSX, and all of it's developement tools, have been running on x86 since the beginning. in house. lucky for them too, this could be a mess if that wern't the case.

The switchover shouldn't be too hard.

Quote
Universal Binaries ?? WTF, great idea Steve,I always thought PPC binaries were too small and needed padding out with useless junk :pissed:
Is having to create 2 separate archives too much hassle for developers?


Developers could do that if they want.
this space for rent
 

Offline T_Bone

Re: It's true! Apple go x86!!!! :-o
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2005, 10:48:28 PM »
Quote

whabang wrote:
If this isn't the final nail in the coffin of the PPC-market, then I don't know what...


http://www.mai.com/

The final nail. :-(
this space for rent