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Author Topic: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System  (Read 2250 times)

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Offline asian1Topic starter

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Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« on: June 03, 2005, 12:42:56 PM »
On DW TV's car Show, there is a discussion about recent recall of 1.8 millions high end Mercedes cars because of defective electronic brake system.

According to one engineer, the main problem is the defective computer system hardware (based on Motorola PowerPC). But according to Motorola, the main problem is the software. There is a plan by Daimler to sue Motorola.

Is the above news true?
Is the main problem hardware (defective CPU / components / design) or
software?

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1211811&posts=6&fid=18
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2005, 02:08:45 PM »
:bump: :nervous:
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline PMC

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2005, 01:33:16 PM »
There is (was?) an electronic brake assist on Mercs that was supposed to sense the movement of your foot on the brake pedal and apply the brakes at maximum power for more efficient emergency stops.  The rationale behind this was that human reflexes naturally "lift" off the pedal slightly during emergency braking.

However, it is important to note that we don't yet have "steer by wire" or "brake by wire".  With the ignition off you're still able to brake and steer because there's a physical connection between the brake cylinders / steering rack, even though power assistance isn't available (both steering and brakes use a hydraulic pump to decrease the physical effort required to brake/steer).

Personally, I'm no fan of electronic driving aids as I feel they take an element of control out of driving - sure anti lock brakes are a great invention but people need to understand that they can sometimes actually increase braking distances over a non-ABS system.  Electronic suspension aids can be used to simply mask inherent chassis imbalance too and makes a car behave less intuitively.

We risk having a generation of drivers who lean too heavily on electronics and programming to sort things out when they reach the limit during extreme driving manouevers.  One day, they'll get into a car which isn't equipped with such aids and will somply be unprepared for the moment when physics overcomes grip.  
Cecilia for President
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2005, 02:40:36 PM »
Quote

PMC wrote:

We risk having a generation of drivers who lean too heavily on electronics and programming to sort things out when they reach the limit during extreme driving manouevers.  One day, they'll get into a car which isn't equipped with such aids and will somply be unprepared for the moment when physics overcomes grip.  


That's like saying, that we now have a generation of drivers who rely too heavily on synchromesh, what would happen if they got into a car that didn't have it? They wouldn't know how to double declutch....

Offline PMC

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2005, 05:54:54 PM »
I see your point Bloodline, but consider that the majority of high performance exotics have no electronic assistance - control of the car is reliant on the driver's intuitive feel for what is happening underneath the tyres.

A £45k Noble M12 GTO has no electronics to apply the brakes and ease off the throttle should the driver attempt to plant the accelerator and steer at the same time.  You can't buy a TVR with ABS brakes.  These cars are now almost considered "affordable" and aren't far away from the price of a fully specc'd C class Merc.

It's all well and good if you're used to handling such a beast, but if you've just got out of a Vauxhall Vectra (as many buyers of TVRs etc have) then you're somewhat used to driving a vehicle that will make it round a slippery corner because the CPU in the chassis is actuating brakes on individual wheels to dial out understeer or oversteer.  Likewise a Merc E class will all but steer itself round a corner in slippery conditions, pampering the driver but also giving a false sense of security.

Also, more and more cars are having fundamental flaws in their chassis behaviour masked over by processing power - the Merc A class was a classic case in point.  I'm all in favour of using technology to enhance passive and active safety, but dumbing down driving isn't necessarily a good thing.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2005, 06:05:40 PM »
But bare in mind that the concept of a driver in a car is becoming outdated.

Offline odin

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2005, 12:57:40 AM »
I'm not sure I want to see your mind bare...

 :-P

Offline bloodline

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Re: Mercedes Recall, Brake and Computer System
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2005, 01:10:08 AM »
:-P