Use of Compact Flash as A1200's HD substitute.

[awe4k]

Hello,

I am going to install an A1200 in a hotel, as an information channel, with Holliwood from Airsoftwair. One video output will go into the amplifier of the hotel's TV network, so it will be able to be received at all rooms via the existing RF lead. Another will feed a monitor used for programming.

Since I don't want to have a hard disk spinning uselessly inside the Amiga, I have searched the net and I have found a good candidate to substitue the hard disk. I have seen a IDE/Compact Flash adapter that has been specifically designed to substitute a 2'5 hard disk. I know about the limited write-cycles issue, but there is not going to be much writing in the CF, 99% of all accesses will be reading. Writing will be done only when changes must be done to the TV information channel.

Will this IDE/Compact Flash adapter work with the A1200?

Oh, and, by the way... How much do you suggest me to charge for the setup? I will appreciate suggestions about this too.

Thanks!

[Doppie1200]

I dont see why not. If it is true IDE and the size of you drive is below 4G (which it probably will be then there should be no problem at all.

HAve you considered using HdSleep from aminet? It will spin down an IDE harddisk when it is not in use.

[Azryl]

G'day, I used to work for a company that did many hotel information systems using amiga 1200's and scala presentations.

They charged $100AUS per page!

Plus all associated charges for modulator, setup, servicing and page modifications/additions

hope this gives you an idea of what some have charged in the past :-)

Az

[Floid]

Sounds like a great application for one of those.  Don't forget to make at least one backup card, but it should just keep going.

Personally, I'd try to rig something up with ethernet to the 'programming terminal,' but if they (or you) want to do it all from the closet, or with long video cabling, more power to it.

[awe4k]

Thanks for the replies.

The hotel has its own amplifying system, obviously, since it feeds about 70 TV's. The Amiga's RF output will be connected there, and then amplified and sent to all the rooms. Since the Amiga will be far away from the amplifier, the Amiga's own RF output will certainly need to be amplified in order to get a proper signal after some 30 meters of wire.

Again, thanks for the replies.

[Floid]

awe4k wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

The hotel has its own amplifying system, obviously, since it feeds about 70 TV's. The Amiga's RF output will be connected there, and then amplified and sent to all the rooms. Since the Amiga will be far away from the amplifier, the Amiga's own RF output will certainly need to be amplified in order to get a proper signal after some 30 meters of wire.

Again, thanks for the replies.

Unless the wiring is in place for this (to the desk you really, really seem to need it to sit on) -- and perhaps it is, if they have extra coax in place for security or such -- I'd really look into the networked solution.  Then you can site the thing in or next to the distribution panel, see them string some CAT5 instead of coax (which, as it stands, is the current decade's standard for useful wiring), not deal with the vagaries of using the 'RF' out if it's going into a video modulator that probably takes the cleaner composite signal, etc.  Run a ftpd and telnetd on the Amiga side, plonk any machine you like at the other end, they'll be happy because they've done something moderately future-proof, you'll be happy because this'll make life easier if you ever must replace it with a commodity box or AmigaOne...

If you'll be doing all the design work for their pages, this would also let you work remotely at some point, if you bothered to do some sort of VPN business with it all.

I might be misreading, though, and if the idea is to give them a Hollywood interface to enter their own information, you need interactivity.  In that case, VNC would probably suit the bill (and nicely future-proof them when, 30 years down the line, the 1200 kicks the bucket), but that's more setup work, and the server I've just heard good things about requires a little more than a stock 1200.  AmiVNC, on the other hand, might do something for you, but people were saying it could impact system performance in a negative way.  Could be worth pitching both proposals, letting them figure out the costs of running cable if you'll not be doing that, and finding out how much money they really want to give you and how much they care. :-)

(Obviously the networked option is only 'easy' if you're familiar with networking, but that's what the x86 sorts would be pitching these days... and having the silly wire in place will be quite handy for them if/when they end up with anything else computery in the video closet; you can only run the one signal over coax, but you can mux all sorts of stuff over one network cable with appropriate computers and hubs... and they'll only have to rip it all out if they need to do something at the desk that actually requires more bandwidth, which I'll optimistically say is 'unlikely,' since there's a limit to what a hotel office will ever need to care about.)

[awe4k]

Hello Floid,

Thanks for your advice. Actually, I don't expect the hotel employees to actually use and change the information that Holliwood will display. Rather, I'll do some pages that just will keep passing (like a slide-show). It will all be very static, and it might need a change about twice a year, if prices or schedules change as seasons go by. So, it all comes down to a pretty basic thing.

The reason why I wanted to take the Amiga so far away from the amplifier is because I want to work in comfort. The hotel's TV amplifier is in such a place that you would not want to stay there very long (I would need a ladder, and I should hang the Amiga on the wall, you see). There is no other appropriate space any closer to the amplifier than the front desk, that is, about 30 meters far away.

Well, of course, another solution would be to leave the Amiga near the amplifier, and then bring the keyboard and the mouse far away but... isn't that going to be even more complicated?

The networking solution is ok, but I've never worked with it on the Amiga (besides having setup the internet over FastEthernet & Mediator on my 4000D). I would need a TCP/IP stack, maybe some file sharing system or telnet to transfer files... when exactly I can get a TV amplifier at a local hardware store and get done with it. Even if I know how to transfer files, I don't fully understand how I will program Holliwood scripts remotely and then get them working once they're on the Amiga whose viedo goes to the hotel rooms. Wouldn't that take stopping Holliwood and re-starting it so that it will load the new script into RAM? How can I do that remotely?

I am still inclined for the traditional coax+amplification solution.

[Floid]

awe4k wrote:
Hello Floid,

Thanks for your advice. Actually, I don't expect the hotel employees to actually use and change the information that Holliwood will display. Rather, I'll do some pages that just will keep passing (like a slide-show). It will all be very static, and it might need a change about twice a year, if prices or schedules change as seasons go by. So, it all comes down to a pretty basic thing.

The reason why I wanted to take the Amiga so far away from the amplifier is because I want to work in comfort. The hotel's TV amplifier is in such a place that you would not want to stay there very long (I would need a ladder, and I should hang the Amiga on the wall, you see). There is no other appropriate space any closer to the amplifier than the front desk, that is, about 30 meters far away.

Ah, hmm, doesn't exactly sound temperature-controlled or Amiga-friendly, then, unless you mean it's in the elevator shaft or something.

Well, of course, another solution would be to leave the Amiga near the amplifier, and then bring the keyboard and the mouse far away but... isn't that going to be even more complicated?

That's what VNC would do, in theory, but the practice of it is just a little hairy on this platform...

The networking solution is ok, but I've never worked with it on the Amiga (besides having setup the internet over FastEthernet & Mediator on my 4000D). I would need a TCP/IP stack, maybe some file sharing system or telnet to transfer files...

Well, you probably wouldn't want the load of a SSH server, but for what it's worth, that pretty much unifies this basic functionality (between offering the shell and scp, in line with the ancient rsh and rcp tools) for us dorks using *NIX.  

I assume AmiTCP is probably good enough -- this would the simplest IP network you can have, two machines on a crossover cable, no need for DNS or any of that just yet -- but you'd need the PCMCIA card, minor working knowledge of IP, and a collection of the daemons you want to run from Aminet (ftp and telnet are generally fairly dead-simple to set up, so don't fear them, especially on a secure and isolated segment where you're allowed to not worry).

when exactly I can get a TV amplifier at a local hardware store and get done with it.

I'm not even sure what country you're in, but how are you planning to mix the signal in at the block, or is that not your problem?  I've used cheap passive "Ch3 combiners," and they inevitably interfere with adjacent channels; most places wanting this type of setup (in the US, at least) would have or buy a professional modulator like this, but those generally expect composite, not Ch3 (though you miiight squeak away with using a broadband TV amp to boost the composite signal, I'm really not sure; if you're lucky, you might not need to).

If you already know you have a RF input waiting for you there, or you've just been using RF to mean composite, then ignore me. ;-)

Even if I know how to transfer files, I don't fully understand how I will program Holliwood scripts remotely and then get them working once they're on the Amiga whose viedo goes to the hotel rooms. Wouldn't that take stopping Holliwood and re-starting it so that it will load the new script into RAM? How can I do that remotely?

I'm rusty with the Amiga shell, but as long as you were able to transfer files and telnet in, I'd assume one utility to reboot (if that's not a builtin) would be all you'd need.  Rig user-startup, is it(?), to load the Hollywood file or script(s) contained in, say, dh0:Presentations/NowPlaying/, and make dh0:Presentations (or equivalent) the FTP root so you can drop things in and out.  

Hint: I suggest this because if you could rig it to point to the directory and execute all within, then you wouldn't have to rename the scripts, just move them back and forth... which would be easier on your brain if you wanted to archive some recurring themes on the card.  Dunno how painful this is, I think it's fairly doable, probably without needing to dip into REXX.

I am still inclined for the traditional coax+amplification solution.

Well, I've made my case, let us know how it goes, either way.  :-)

[Azryl]

I had a similar system running thru the largest casino in Australia, 110+ pages plus individual voice overs, backing music etc

A1200, 8meg fast ram, internal IDE 3.5inch harddrive, internal IDE 100meg zip disk. Also a reset switch wired to the outside. All this was inside a 19inch rack mount with no thermal protection at all except a small heatsink ontop of the lisa chip.

I wrote startup scripts that would allow booting from the harddrive, then before starting scala, would check the zip, if a disk was inserted, it would copy all the scala content off the zip onto the harddrive, eject the zip, reboot and start with all updated/fresh content.

Was quick, simple, and the hotel service tech could achieve the procedure without too much hassle.

Monthly updates were painless after this rebuild from a standard a1200.

Az

**note** I also wrote a small assembly language program to sit quietly on the video blank interrupt, count 24 hours then system friendly reset the machine. If I did not have this, then Scala would eventually fail, cause blank screens, chop up the voice overs or stop playing the background music. The AmigaOS3.1 does get memory fragmentation when running 24/7 !!  you have been warned

[coldfish]

**note** I also wrote a small assembly language program to sit quietly on the video blank interrupt, count 24 hours then system friendly reset the machine. If I did not have this, then Scala would eventually fail, cause blank screens, chop up the voice overs or stop playing the background music. The AmigaOS3.1 does get memory fragmentation when running 24/7 !! you have been warned

...always good to see a guru broadcast over 20 monitors.

 :-P

[Azryl]

20 monitors?

The casino had 370 rooms, with average of 2 tv's per room, suites upto 6 tv's...  thats LOTS of monitors with guru!

The reset program worked on all versions of Amiga OS, KS1.2 thru to KS3.1 and all chipsets. Tested with a1000, a500, a600, a3000 (written on), a2000, Escom a4000 tower and of course the a1200 multimedia  systems :-)

I had to make sure it didnt crash, as much as any amiga program doesnt crash :-)

Az