How to get files to an amiga

[badalias]

Noster wrote:

@chertel + badalias

If you own the original Workbench disk, do you also own the Extras disk containing Amiga Basic?
I will write a small program that is able to read data from the serial port and write it to a destination file in Amiga Basic. Such a Basic program can be transfered to an Amiga and be written to disk using the Type command, because Amiga Basic programs are just simple text-files. So anybody that owns a Workbench (1.2/1.3) and the according Extras disk can transfer the Amiga Basic program to his Amiga and use that program to load a better program (e.g. a terminal program) to the Amiga.

I think it will take 2-3 days to write and test such a tool (currently I'm not fit in Amiga Basic any more, last time I used it was 15 years ago :-)). Are you interested?

I think I have a copy of the disks mentioned, I am interested in the Amiga Basic program, let us all know when it's done. (Maybe even give us a listing in a separate post)

Thanks for the extra effort.

BadAlias

[badalias]

Noster wrote:

@chertel + badalias

If you own the original Workbench disk, do you also own the Extras disk containing Amiga Basic?
I will write a small program that is able to read data from the serial port and write it to a destination file in Amiga Basic. Such a Basic program can be transfered to an Amiga and be written to disk using the Type command, because Amiga Basic programs are just simple text-files. So anybody that owns a Workbench (1.2/1.3) and the according Extras disk can transfer the Amiga Basic program to his Amiga and use that program to load a better program (e.g. a terminal program) to the Amiga.

I think it will take 2-3 days to write and test such a tool (currently I'm not fit in Amiga Basic any more, last time I used it was 15 years ago :-)). Are you interested?

I think I have a copy of the disks mentioned, I am interested in the Amiga Basic program, let us all know when it's done. (Maybe even give us a listing in a separate post)

Thanks for the extra effort.

BadAlias

Am I missing some files on my Extras 1.3 disk? I remember reading that you can see more files on amiga disks using  Amiga DOS, but I have misplaced the only Amiga books I have in a recent move. (They were third party books, not the original amiga manuals.)

Anybody care to tutor me?

My Extras 1.3 disk looks like this:

Tools (Folder)
 - EMacs (File)
 - Fed (File)
 - FreeMap (File)
 - PerfMon (File)
 - IconEd (File)
 - KeyToy2000 (File)
 - Palette (File)
 - IconnMerge
PCUtil (Folder)
 - PCCopy (File)
 - PCFormat (File)
 - ToPCCopy (File)
 - ReadMe (File)
FD1.3 (Folder)
 - BASIC FD files here! (File - Won't open!)
Fonts (Folder - Empty)
Devs (Folder - Empty)
Trashcan (Folder? - Empty)

[badalias]

The PCUtil folder on my Extras 1.3 disk seems to have what I'd need to use 5.25" disks to transfer files to my Amiga using an Amiga 1020 drive. Could I convert my 1010 Dirve to a 1020 drive using a 5.25" 1.2Mb drive from a PC (For example from an old 286)?

BadAlias

Just posted something similar called 5.25" or 3.5" HD External Floppy Drive question as it's more closely related to the topic there.

[badalias]

Check out WarTrans - Warlock's Amiga Transfer Program, I just found it, but alas, I have  no Amiga Basic on my Extras 1.3 disk.

[Noster]

Hi,

that doesn't look like the original Extras disk. The disk seems to be changed and used for other tools, an Extra 1.3 disk should contain this:

Trashcan (dir)
t (dir)
BasicDemos (dir)
Tfiles (dir)
fd1.2 (dir)
.info
Amiga Tutor
Amiga Tutor.info
AmigaBasic
AmigaBASIC.info
BasicDemos.info
demo
demo.info
Disk.info
fractels
fractels.info
Terminal
Terminal.info
Tfiles.info
Trashcan.info                    

EDIT: By the way, reading my own post, I see the program Terminal in the list above. IS that a terminal program? I will check that (and look for my other Extras disk stored by my parents, maybe the disk listed above is also not an original one?).

> Could I convert my 1010 Dirve to a 1020 drive using a 5 1/4" 1.2Mb drive from a PC (For example from an old 286)?

That wont work. The first problem will be the different connector types of 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives and the second one the different pinout of the connectors. Most PC drives miss the required DiskChange signal and a few pins may have a different usage.
If you want to convert a PC-drive to an Amiga drive, check this:

http://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/aminet/aminet/hard/hack/PCFloppy2Amiga.lha

It describes in detail how to rework a PC floppy to an Amiga floppy.

> Check out WarTrans - Warlock's Amiga Transfer Program, I just found it, but alas, I have no Amiga Basic on my Extras 1.3 disk.

Yeah, that is it !!! :-D
I stop developing my own little tool, WarTrans has everything we need, it is the tool we were searching for.
I will test it on my own today.

Noster

[pjhutch]

EDIT: By the way, reading my own post, I see the program Terminal in the list above. IS that a terminal program?

Sort of, it will transfer ASCII files over a serial link but nothing else. Forget binary files - they get corrupted as they are not ascii. It doesn`t support any standard protocols either eg Kermit, XYZ Modem etc.

[badalias]

Noster wrote:

that doesn't look like the original Extras disk. The disk seems to be changed and used for other tools, an Extra 1.3 disk should contain this...

Ok, I guess that my Extras 1.3 disk was modified before I got it. (Used computing strikes again!) Anybody willing to mail me a copy of their un-modified Extras 1.3 disk?

If so, e-mail me at mkingsmill@yahoo.com?subject=Extras 1.3 disk and I'll tell you where to send it.

Noster: Could you post a description showing which files belong in which folder?

Noster wrote:

BadAlias wrote:
Could I convert my 1010 Dirve to a 1020 drive using a 5.25" 1.2Mb drive from a PC (For example from an old 286)?

That wont work. The first problem will be the different connector types of 3.5" and 5.25" drives and the second one the different pinout of the connectors. Most PC drives miss the required DiskChange signal and a few pins may have a different usage.
If you want to convert a PC-drive to an Amiga drive, check this:

PCFloppy2Amiga.lha

It describes in detail how to rework a PC floppy to an Amiga floppy.

Parts for PC computers are plentiful in my workshop. There is a ribbon cable for connecting the the drive to the 1010's PCB, I could just replace that cable with one with the correct connectors out of a PC. I have several of these, they are standard parts in the PC world... The power cable inside the 1010 is slightly more problematic as it  is not standard PC (or Amiga) parts. I used a chunk of wiring off a PC-AT powersupply to give me the needed "small" connector on the PCB end, and the "big" connector for the drive.

I guess I only have to alter the drive to fit the Amiga standard. I already have several different LHA's from several different places like aminet, or the Amiga Technical Resource who has a ftp directory full of such files. They all describe various methods to alter PC drives to Amiga standards, but I'm starting to  get a little dizzy reading them all. There seems to be several conflicting methods out there, and most of them are written for modifying a specific brand and/or model of drive. I'll need something more generic than the ones I've read already.

My big problem with the info in the stuff I've read is that it doesn't say it clearly enough when it's a file written for generic PC drives, and the ones written for specific models are (usually) good detail, but too specific to that model of drive.

BadAlias

[SHADES]

@BadAlias
Unlikely to happen I'm afraid. The hardware and design of floppy disk drives changes quite dramaticly from manufacturer to manufacturer. The reson why specific drives are mentioned in the conversion to AMIGA drives is that some IBM clone drives have the ability to do some extra things however they have been disabled by jumpers or not attached as the IBM didn't need to use these features.

So, it's just not possible to have a generic guide as the drives differ in the way they are built even using different controller chips and new designs would need to be made/discovered for each drive.

Some drives are just not compatible and have no way to be modified to work at all, then on the other hand, some have less features than others, you're just going to have to look at all the different designes and then decide on which one seems best or easiest to find. Some of the drive designs are quite old now and the drives are hard to find.

[badalias]

SHADES wrote:
@BadAlias
Unlikely to happen I'm afraid. The hardware and design of floppy disk drives changes quite dramaticly from manufacturer to manufacturer. The reson why specific drives are mentioned in the conversion to AMIGA drives is that some IBM clone drives have the ability to do some extra things however they have been disabled by jumpers or not attached as the IBM didn't need to use these features.

So, it's just not possible to have a generic guide as the drives differ in the way they are built even using different controller chips and new designs would need to be made/discovered for each drive.

Some drives are just not compatible and have no way to be modified to work at all, then on the other hand, some have less features than others, you're just going to have to look at all the different designes and then decide on which one seems best or easiest to find. Some of the drive designs are quite old now and the drives are hard to find.

Although it is true that each drive's logic board and jumper options are different, the interface is the same. I am interested in what signals need modification on generic PC floppy drives because the files I've  found are usually for upgrading from 880Kb to 1760Kb or just using a 3.5" PC flopppy drive as a cheap replacement Amiga 3.5" drive.

I'm gong the other way - I'm turning a 3.5" Amiga 880Kb drive into a 5.25" drive. The details I want are how to make something more generic. I suppose that my finished product (preferably an adaptor, not a logic board hack) would be similar to a Kylwalda.

[badalias]

Ok...

Hows about the crazy idea of transfering files between an Amiga and a Comodore (Pet, C=64 or C=128)? Anybody have any ideas? If I succeed in hooking up the 5.25" drive, I may want to do this too. (Especially the Pet, as I don't have one, but I have old disks from one, and would like to be able to transfer the files to something else I can use.

[badalias]

I have  been looking around and found this but the description is kinda confusing. Seems like exactly what I'm looking for - if I could follow their description better.

Then comes modifying the mountlist. I'm a  newbie, and have books that could be useful, but cannot be found (they're  lost amongst the stuff still packed since my latest move)

BadAlias


I have gone and rested my brain and come back at it from a new angle.

I think the page linked above means that:

For unit 0 (Is this for drives configured as unit 0 or to make DF0?)

Wire number: 02 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 34
- Re-wired to: 34 14 13 16 15 12 11 10 02

For unit 1
Wire number: 02 10 11 12 13 14 34
- Re-wired to: 34 12 13 14 11 10 02

Does this make sense to anybody? I tried the wiring for unit0 and hooked up the resulting cable to the PCB in my 1010 and did not even get a working drive when I used a PC 3.5" 1.44Mb floppy drive.

[Noster]

Hi,

> Hows about the crazy idea of transfering files between an Amiga and a Comodore (Pet, C=64 or C=128)?

If you can get access to the required filesystem, you could read nearly any diskformat with an Amiga. There is CrossDos for accessing PC-disks for example and I know there were tools to access Atari and Mac disks (or does CrossDos support these diskformats too ?).
But I don't know if there is a filesystem available for C64 or Pet disks, even if there had been build 5 1/4" diskdrives for the Amiga (I own one) they are very unusual and therefore not very good supported.

I would start a quick search in Aminet for such a tool/filesystem.

A good (and expensive) solution would be the CatWeasel controller. With this controller in your PC you can access disks in nearly any available format.

Noster

[badalias]

If anybody else wanted to know I contacted the author of this, here's the whole chain of Q&A via e-mail

--- Damir Kuticic wrote:
> not like that. unit0 and unit1 is connectors on the
> cable. If you prepared first, twisted connector you
> should use the unit0 changes otherwise use the unit1.
>
> --- BadAlias wrote:
> > Damir:
> >
> >    Do you mean you cut off the connector for A: and
> > re-wired the B: connector, resulting in a cable that
> > gave you DF1? If not, could you give step-by-step for
> > idiots?
> >
> > Matt K.
> >
> > --- Damir Kuticic wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > > unit 0 is first device on cable (twisted), unit 1 is
> > > second device. I took standard pc cable for two
> > > units, then removed first connector and on the second
> > > I made adaption by unit1.
> > >
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:38 AM
> > > Subject: PC FDD (1.44) to Amiga FDD (880)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- BadAlias wrote:
> > > > Damir:
> > > >
> > > >    I'm trying to use your cable adaptation, is this
> > > > interpretation right?
> > > >
> > > > For unit 0
> > > > Wire number: 02 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 34
> > > > Re-wired to: 34 14 13 16 15 12 11 10 02
> > > >
> > > > For unit 1
> > > > Wire number: 02 10 11 12 13 14 34
> > > > Re-wired to: 34 12 13 14 11 10 02
> > > >
> > > >    Where it says "For Unit 0" is this for drives
> > > > configured as unit 0 or to make the Amiga drive
> > > > DF0? Does it matter which end of the cable I
> > > > re-wire?
> > > >
> > > >    Which connector on the cable should the drive be
> > > > on if I use this on a (PC) dual drive cable?
> > > >
> > > > Matt K.

[badalias]

Noster wrote:
Hi,

BadAlias wrote:
Hows about the crazy idea of transfering files between an Amiga and a Comodore (Pet, C=64 or C=128)?

A good (and expensive) solution would be the CatWeasel controller. With this controller in your PC you can access disks in nearly any available format.

I wish I had the money for a catweasel. I wish I had the money for an A600HD. I wish I had money for a new PC. There's a lot of stuff that I wish I had money for

[badalias]

McTrinsic wrote:

[...]
I don't have Amiga basic, some idiot deleted it from the floppies I have before I got them...

The cable is a no-sweat proposition, I'd have built it by now, but I can't use it...

As I said, you only need that cable and a Workbench disk. Unless something extremely weird has happened, you have the "type" command there.

Go to
http://homepage.uibk.ac.at/homepage/c725/c72578/amiga/
and read it thoroughly.

Especially make sure you read
http://homepage.uibk.ac.at/homepage/c725/c72578/amiga/adfsenderterminal/methods.html

From that point on, everything should work o.k.


Have fun,
McTrinsic

Supposedly it *can* be done...

I'll check this one out in the next week...

[badalias]

Somebody else wanna try this? I got energetic, and tried, the Amiga doesn't seem to react quite the way it seems that it's supposed to, according to the FAQ. It seems to get the file (if I open a second shell I can see the file using dir), but, says "object in use" if I  try to copy it anywhere.