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Author Topic: Food From Air, Universal Drinks  (Read 4472 times)

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Offline asian1Topic starter

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Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« on: March 10, 2005, 04:01:21 PM »
I read this prediction from RD.
Is this a real possibility or just a dream?
When will the new innovation ready for the market?

1. Creating food from air:

Marvin Rudolph (Director of DuPont Food Industry)

"Instead of harvesting grain and cattle for carbohydrates, nanobots could assembled the desired steak or flour from carbon , hydrogen and oxygen atoms present in the air as water and carbon dioxide".

2. Manuel Marquez Sanchez (Kraft NanoteK Consortium):

By storing ingredients in "Nanocapsules", he believes that Kraft will be able to devise such treats as an interactive customizable drink.

"Everyone is buying the same drink, but the customer can decide it's colour, flavour, concentration and texture by using ultrasound or radio frequencies to trigger the nanocapsules"
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 05:29:16 PM »
Sounds like the typical manager-who-heard-something-about-nanotechnology-and-now-wants-to-show-off
thing. Those people always forget that nanotechnology, just like the rest of the world around, is based on atoms. There isn't something 'magic' which allows nanotechnology to be based on something other than atoms.

So with that in mind, lets take a look at Mr Rudolphs idea. First we'd need a nanobot to build steak. We already have such a nanobot, it's called 'life', and it does its job very well. Second, he is forgetting a very basic physical restriction, namely the Law of Conservation of Energy. Where would Mr Rudolph propose the nanobots get the energy from to reduce H2O, CO2 and N2 to the various compounds (sugars and proteins) that make up steak? In his scenario, about the only place they'd get it from is sunlight. Not very energetic stuff, really. Third, how do the nanobots cooperate to create something as complex as a succulent steak? They'd need some sort of radio or other means of communication. All the various requirements turn 'nano' into 'micro'. It's way cheaper to feed a cow, or do a tissue culture a la 'Chicken Little' from Frederick Pohl's The Space Merchants. Mr Rudolph is not a very bright man, if you ask me. How did such a klutz fall to such a high position?

Then we have Mr Sanchez. Mr Sanchez is less ambitious and focuses on small capsules which release their flavours when triggered by a radio wave or something similar. That is actually not such a bad idea. But Mr Sanchez too makes a few  mistakes in his line of thought. Since the drink must be tailored at 'run time' so to speak, all the flavours must be  stored in the drink. And that takes up space. Nanocapsules, while small, are still of finite size, and the numbers you need will become visible. In other words, your drink will consist of untriggered nanocapsules. What will happen once they're inside your body? Can they be digested? Finally, Mr Sanchez is solving a problem which is not a problem: why would we want a customizable drink you need a radio for when you can add all the flavouring you need with an extra spoonful of ingredients (sugar, spices, flavouring, ...)? In fact, why would you drink all the other flavouring in the first place...? So while Mr Sanchez is not really as dumb as Mr Rudolph, I'd still advise him to go look for another job as well.

As I already indicated, the problem with nanotechnology is largely caused by morons such as Mr Rudolph and Mr Sanchez who think that it is something magical which breaks all known laws of physics. Nanotechnology can be incredibly useful and powerful: I've seen a beautiful research paper on the design of a nanocrystalline catalyst which broke down chlorinated plastics and other compounds at a rate and efficiency you would not believe. That is nanotechnology: very precisely designed and constructed molecules to do just one very simple thing. Anyone telling you about building steaks from thin air is selling snake oil.
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2005, 06:54:45 AM »
Military nanobots will surface long before cowmaking nanobots I think. :)
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2005, 12:52:56 PM »
Mmmmmmm....Gargle... Grey Goo :-P

Offline gizz72

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 01:48:54 AM »
Greetings,

Here's one possibility.
HERE:-)

Or... maybe not. :-(
Not here! :lol:

Seriously, Nano tech is in it's infancy. To be able to grow nano size farms are still far fetch and could take another decade or two to perfect this. Like this food replicator from ST.

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Offline Cymric

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 09:23:03 AM »
For some reason, I find the idea of a microbot---a red blood cell is about 2 to 3 micrometers in diameter---with such a sharp pointed snout travelling through my veins rather scary. Not to mention the fact that small veins require the blood cells to fold up in order to pass through. I can't see a microbot do that: it would get stuck and cause all kinds of nasty blockages. What you could do is a sort of dialysis where the microbots remain outside of the body while they are treating the blood.
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Offline asian1Topic starter

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 10:19:27 PM »
What about Nanobots that manage nuclear waste / coating it with Pb (lead)?
Or Nanobots for creating oil / other energy sources?

http://www.tainano.com/CCRN/TOWARD%20REAL%20SUSTAINABILITY%20BY%20NANOTECHNOLOGY.htm
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 10:57:34 PM »
Hrm. I more or less skimmed the article, and can make the following observations.

1. It is an article with a high 'feel-good' emphasis. It paints a picture of what a future based on nanotechnology, driven by the sun, could look like. It features zero calculations and zero scenarios what actually needs to be done to get there. The authors take the current status quo of a number of projects and research efforts into solar based energy generation, and weave an entire society around it.

2. It must be said that the ideas put forth are better suited for nanotechnology than those by the food mogols. But the authors are nevertheless getting carried away: they postulate the construction of carbon fibers with better mechanical properties than that of steel (riiight), or self-replicating nanobots to make sure that radioactive waste is kept in sealed environments (self-replication in the face of hard radiation is asking for trouble), or even nano-assisted nuclear fusion (*duh!*).

Nanotechnology will have its place in our future society. It will not be the onset of an entirely new era in human existence.
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Offline asian1Topic starter

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2005, 04:25:48 PM »
>Nano - not practical.

What about various applications at micro level:
* Sensors.
* Parfum / preventing body odor
* Insect /pest killer
* Cleaning floor.
* Micro robot for surveilance, exploration etc.
* Creating new Ozone layer, reducing air pollution.
* Medical applications. (surgery, drug dispenser etc)

Is there any other possible applications of micro technology?

=======================================

http://mems.sandia.gov/scripts/index.asp

Imagine machines so small they are imperceptible to the human eye.

Imagine working machines with gears no bigger than a grain of pollen.

Welcome to the microdomain, in which Sandia National Laboratories is a leader in the development of micromachines or MEMS (MicroElectroMechanical Systems).

 

Offline Cymric

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 02:14:56 PM »
Quote
* Sensors.

Most definitely. Small, sensitive yet robust sensing equipment always attracts a lot of interest. There are so many applications where timely data are of the essence that this type of development pays itself.

Quote
* Parfum / preventing body odor

Smart perfumes/deodorants... Tricky. They would be quite complex, and people don't want to buy expensive gadgets which get rid of unpleasant smells. My deodorant costs about two-and-a-half dollar per bottle, and it works just peachy. (At least, my GF thinks so :-D.) The only application I can think of would be in small, enclosed areas, like space ships or submarines. Or in areas where water is exceedingly scarce or cold---deserts, poles. That would make it an 'outdoor' product for which you can charge a bit more. But it would still be rather exclusive.

Quote
* Insect /pest killer

Another perhaps. I think people would prefer 'natural' remedies against these. I think they are quite elegant in themselves, and impossible to beat in price. Only against really threatening large swarms (locusts!) would artificial help be useful.

Quote
* Cleaning floor.

You mean that people actually worry about the state of their floor... :-) ? No, I don't see a future for microbugs here. I do see a bright future for poor old underpaid immigrants doing the chores you loathe to do yourself because you insist on doing better things with your precious spare time. Or think you are above cleaning out the toilet or drain :-). (However, if there is a little something which does that for me---no more yuck in the drain resulting from hairs, soap and filth would be worth something to me.)

Quote
* Micro robot for surveilance, exploration etc.

Falls within the realm of sensing equipment, although I doubt whether you can create interesting devices which are 'micro'  in size.

Quote
* Creating new Ozone layer, reducing air pollution.

With a single heavy boust of solar activity, the microbots would be completely devastated. I think we should keep our hands off of the ozone layer until we fully understand the dynamics of Earth itself. Contrary to many popular reports, we don't. This application has a high 'feel good' factor rather than a high 'scientifically sound' factor. Air pollution, and mostly of the urban kind, is a different matter, however. Intelligent filters which scrub the air at a small, but continuous rate using very little energy can seriously improve the local environment, and thus cause massive reductions in diseases affecting nose, throat and lungs.

Quote
* Medical applications. (surgery, drug dispenser etc)

Always a good application for small things. But microbots must be fully understood before they can be applied---humans are not fond of risking their lives on the premise of new technology. I think it will start with sensors again: think of sensors which monitor cholesterol-, glucose-, or hormone levels which then trigger a small localised supply of concentrated medicine. Swallowing pills is primitive by comparison. On the other hand, if the technology fails, you have a lot of deaths to cope with.
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Offline Generale

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Re: Food From Air, Universal Drinks
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2005, 01:33:22 PM »
Using nanomachines for a lot of the purposes that people come up with is ridiculous. It's like trying to make a tractor wrap a present....without a driver. How do you give a machine intelligence that a fully blown unit can't match, and make it agile and able to understand it's surroundings?
It's not possible. While we're at it why not make them out of the collapsed singularity from a black hole so we don't have to worry about the granularity of atoms.

Cleaning floors: Babies are excellent for that. Just give them a nice fluffy romper.
Killing pests: Babies again. They stomp on them and/or eat them. Or hammers, or pesticides.

A cool idea, but it's pure fantasy!
Sure, I've seen the little gears etc, but what use is a couple of tiny gears? Put them together and you get a larger machine.

Biotech is probably better. the hard work has already been done billions of years ago. Ie Making cells work etc.

I do like the tiny little gold toyota with the working electric motor though. That is seriously cool.
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