Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: CF card as hard drive?  (Read 8360 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DeQuevedo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2002
  • Posts: 220
    • Show only replies by DeQuevedo
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2005, 03:40:57 PM »
I have an IDE2CF adapter, but I cant initialize de CF under Hdtoolbox. Eror 7 it says I think
---------------------------------------

-Have Fun infected Incubes!
 

Offline GeneraleTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2005
  • Posts: 233
    • Show only replies by Generale
    • http://members.dodo.com.au/~izabellion
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2005, 02:28:44 PM »
Too tired to format this properly. Sorry. But,

The stylistic has 2 pcmcia for normal use and 1 doublewidth for microdrives if I remember correctly.

Now for the bad blocks.
Are you saying that microdrives are smart enough to implement the same sort of system as S.M.A.R.T. Ie, having some capacity put aside for bad sectors that is dynamically remapped, and after that threshold has been hit, 'Sorry but you have bad sectors'. Anyway, I don't see how it could be too much of a problem, because as long as the CF card has the ability to say 'this byte is bad', the filesystem handles the bad blocks anyway.

I just had a stupid idea that I shot down instantly. Just thought I'd say it because some people might get a laugh out of it. My logic went as follows:

*CF would wear out too quickly if used for swap.
*What doesn't have the writing limitations?
*RAM doesn't!
*So use a Ramdisk for virtual memory!!
*.....idiot.
A500 (salvo): 1Mb RAM (512k chip, 512k SlowFast)
1x880k Floppy Disk, 1xIBM 540Mb 3.5\\"HDD KS1.3, WB1.3
1084S monitor. AT Keyboard!
A500 (Whitey): 512k RAM, 1x880k Floppy Disk, KS1.2, WB1.3
 

Offline Chunder

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 148
    • Show only replies by Chunder
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2005, 02:33:51 PM »
:lol: Yep - that's pretty funny :-)

It's strange how a chain of thoughts can be started from one thing, and it all seems nice and logical until you step back and look at it from a distance... hehe
Pimp My Amiga  8-)
___________________________
\\"The following statement is true.\\"
\\"The previous statement is a lie.\\"
 

Offline adonay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1144
    • Show only replies by adonay
    • http://www.freewebs.com/adonay-/index.htm
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2005, 08:46:13 PM »
hmm i just want to know why CF cards!! You get 1.8" hd drives theese days for better pris than a 4GIG!!! CF i went to look and found a 40gig1.8"!!!!! on webshop here in norway for 170$ (100£) why dont do this  you could fit 3 of theese in a 1200 np my sugestion annways.




adonay :-P
A1200 ACA 1230
 

Offline Doobrey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 1876
    • Show only replies by Doobrey
    • http://www.doobreynet.co.uk
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2005, 10:25:14 PM »
Quote

adonay wrote:
hmm i just want to know why CF cards!!


I use one in an A1200 cos it`s totally silent, and boots up bloody quickly cos there`s no moving parts to spin up.
On schedule, and suing
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1345
    • Show only replies by Dr_Righteous
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2005, 11:32:58 PM »
As one of the first people to try this on the Amiga, I'm very much a proponent for doing so, I have to say it works very well. I use it in my A4000D. The trick is to use the fastest CF card you can get to take full advantage of the solid state nature of it. Access times are where you'll find the bigest boost.

I don't however recommend using microdrives, as this negates the advantage of being solid state. Me myself personally I use it strictly as my workbench drive, shaving off some boot time.

Oh, and no drivers are needed, as CF is IDE by design. Use it like you would any IDE hard drive. And of course, never try hot swaping it.
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1345
    • Show only replies by Dr_Righteous
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2005, 11:37:44 PM »
Quote

adonay wrote:
hmm i just want to know why CF cards!! You get 1.8" hd drives theese days for better pris than a 4GIG!!!


Size and capacity aren't the issue, speed is. Anything over 1GB is going to be a microdrive and negates the whole idea. It must be solid state to achieve any speed advantage.
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -
 

Offline adonay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1144
    • Show only replies by adonay
    • http://www.freewebs.com/adonay-/index.htm
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2005, 01:01:09 AM »
is it that much to gain in acsess advantages.thought this had everything to do with the ide conroller most 1.8" hds is around 15 ms witch is not to bad .I can see that CF cards would be ideal for transfers between amigas as long as switched off but have to try it out personally to see if the acsess time is as good as you say..ahh and you must love the silence.. :-D



adonay
A1200 ACA 1230
 

Offline Floid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 918
    • Show only replies by Floid
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2005, 08:04:28 AM »
Quote

Generale wrote:
Too tired to format this properly. Sorry. But,

The stylistic has 2 pcmcia for normal use and 1 doublewidth for microdrives if I remember correctly.


To spare you the pain of buying the wrong thing, CF and PCMCIA/Cardbus are different.  Modern microdrives are only available in CF form-factor (and I seem to recall there's some 'typing' of CF slots as to whether they're thick enough to let the microdrive fit), but PCMCIA hard drives exist -- they're basically a 1.8"? drive crammed on a hardcard, hence the sheer height of that Type II or Type III PCMCIA slot.

Quote
Now for the bad blocks.
Are you saying that microdrives are smart enough to implement the same sort of system as S.M.A.R.T. Ie, having some capacity put aside for bad sectors that is dynamically remapped, and after that threshold has been hit, 'Sorry but you have bad sectors'. Anyway, I don't see how it could be too much of a problem, because as long as the CF card has the ability to say 'this byte is bad', the filesystem handles the bad blocks anyway.


Someone's saying this... the microdrives really ought to, being magnetic and prone to a certain defect rate, and you can probably find out if they do or don't in the product literature; the question is whether they bother doing this for (any? all? some?) of the fully solid-state cards in any of the various formats they come in (CF, SD, USB stick)...

Bad-block remapping is sort of independent of S.M.A.R.T., which, as far as I know, is not much more than a buzzword out in IDE land.  They were, in theory, doing remapping long before anyone came up with the S.M.A.R.T. word and the limited ability to let the drive report an 'I personally think I'm about to die for reasons that may or may not be accurate' condition.  (Per this article, I notice IDE S.M.A.R.T. has wobbled a bit in nature, which explains my confusion.  Since I'm more of a SCSI guy, I've been able to count on spare-table statistics showing up in mode pages, whether or not its presence there is some requirement of a 'S.M.A.R.T.' spec.)

Also, while Amiga and MS-land filesystems can still deal with bad sectors exposed to them at the software level, not every platform is so lucky.  In particular, the code to handle that appears to have suffered 'some' abandonment in BSD-land, and not every *NIX filesystem will bother with the automatic reallocation that makes life on a dying disk comfortable.  (This may have something to do with cultural differences, or maybe I just haven't found the best-practice for creating a soft list in BSD-land.  A major problem is, of course, what happens when the sectors containing the bad blocks list go bad, or when a cabling or UDMA mode problem suddenly makes 'every' block on the disk look bad...)

Quote
I just had a stupid idea that I shot down instantly. Just thought I'd say it because some people might get a laugh out of it. My logic went as follows:

*CF would wear out too quickly if used for swap.
*What doesn't have the writing limitations?
*RAM doesn't!
*So use a Ramdisk for virtual memory!!
*.....idiot.


The other day I caught myself thinking about creating a VM-backed /tmp, then moving the swapfile to it, because it doesn't have to persist across a reboot, and it would only have to swap when the file grew...  :-D
 

Offline WuduFrumm

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 5
    • Show only replies by WuduFrumm
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2005, 12:38:59 PM »
i solved the limited write cycle problem in a very simple way: one big CF card which contains all the tools, games, boot partition etc. and another CF card which is a "work partition". the trick is that the 2nd CF card is pretty small, so if it ever blows up i will get myself a new one for 5 euro.
 

Offline orange

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 2799
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by orange
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
I'd just like to warn you that flash RAM disks aren't reliable at all.
My USB flash disk died, and SD Kingston (with lifetime warranty) also broke (wouldn't write).
On the other hand, I never had a single bad block with all HDDs used. It does *seem* that something with no movable parts would last forever, but it doesn't.
“Giving up is always an option, but not always a failure.”
 

Offline GeneraleTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2005
  • Posts: 233
    • Show only replies by Generale
    • http://members.dodo.com.au/~izabellion
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2005, 12:53:16 AM »
Yeah. S.M.A.R.T. is just a buzzwordused by seagate. what they do is nothing unusual. On my 'big' computer that my partner uses I always keep an eye on the s.m.a.r.t. status in linux, but not too closely, as I dont trust it. Did you know that the drive thinks that it has problems when the data connector isnt 100%? learned that the hard way with a bad caddy.

Heh. I remember trying to make my pc use a ramdisk for the swapfile years ago. the computer had three hundred and something meg of ram and barely touched most of it and still used a swap. Needless to say, it didn't work.

Oh, back to the whole intelligent sector remapping thing, i like to know when somethings going wrong. Unless you use a system like smart, the drive hides it, like winnt glosses over drive errors with NTFS.

Never occurred to me about the bad sector map corrupting. Scary thought but could be mangled back with a hex editor.
A500 (salvo): 1Mb RAM (512k chip, 512k SlowFast)
1x880k Floppy Disk, 1xIBM 540Mb 3.5\\"HDD KS1.3, WB1.3
1084S monitor. AT Keyboard!
A500 (Whitey): 512k RAM, 1x880k Floppy Disk, KS1.2, WB1.3
 

Offline leirbag28

Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2005, 02:10:39 AM »
@Dr_Righteous

Size and capacity aren't the issue, speed is. Anything over 1GB is going to be a microdrive and negates the whole idea. It must be solid state to achieve any speed advantage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 Nope.............they have 4Gig CF cards now with no moving parts.............and I actually think they are upto 9Gig CF cards (Not MicroDrives with moving parts)

Very expensive though.

CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline Trooper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2002
  • Posts: 133
    • Show only replies by Trooper
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2005, 02:32:15 AM »
Its 8 gig

LEXAR 8 GIG 80X PRO COMPACT FLASH CARD   $1,720.34 ($1,495.95 Online price)

Trooper
Rainbow Islands: \\"The game is sometimes called \\"Bubble Bobble 2\\". However, two other games --\\"Bubble Symphony: The Story of Bubble Bobble 2\\" and \\"Bubble Bobble 2\\"-- claim the same name. Rainbow Islands happens after Bubble Bobble. Bubble Symphon...
 

Offline GeneraleTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2005
  • Posts: 233
    • Show only replies by Generale
    • http://members.dodo.com.au/~izabellion
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2005, 04:19:56 AM »
ouch! looking at that price I think I'd prefer RAID 0!

Just remembered. Upgrading this garbageheap from a 6x86 120+ to a p200mmx. System is shutting down now....
A500 (salvo): 1Mb RAM (512k chip, 512k SlowFast)
1x880k Floppy Disk, 1xIBM 540Mb 3.5\\"HDD KS1.3, WB1.3
1084S monitor. AT Keyboard!
A500 (Whitey): 512k RAM, 1x880k Floppy Disk, KS1.2, WB1.3
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1345
    • Show only replies by Dr_Righteous
Re: CF card as hard drive?
« Reply #29 from previous page: February 23, 2005, 04:03:07 AM »
Quote

@Dr_Righteous

Nope.............they have 4Gig CF cards now with no moving parts.............and I actually think they are upto 9Gig CF cards (Not MicroDrives with moving parts)

Very expensive though.


DAMN! That's just EVIL! I hadn't looked online... Just what I'd seen in the stores... Fry's, Microcenter, CompUSA, etc. I wonder what speeds these puppies run at  :-D

*update* 8GB @ 80X?! *pass out*
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -