Lou: My CD32 with 4megs in my SX-1 ran IBrowse. If Firefox is a bigger pig than Internet Explorer (<21MB) then those coders (FireFox) need to write better code. How big is Opera?
The v8.5 archive is 3.6 MB in size. Granted, that's a compressed archive. Installation is about 13MB, and memory usage is 16MB when I look at my master links page, which is written in strict HTML 4.0 with no graphics, CSS, etc.
Lou: So, it can be used like RAM: or RAD:
It's still useable.
For config information, I suppose. But, to be usable, you still have to jump through hoops to get it to the CPU, somehow.
Funny, GameCube memory architecture is somewhat opposite of the Amiga.
Lou: Well, not every web page contains Flash, Javascript, VBscript, streaming media, etc.
Point a modern web browser to a plain HTML page and see how much memory it uses.
HTML is just a markup language to describe content. You can get a 100k parsing engine to display HTML as graphics. That doesn't mean anyone wants to use it.
I thought people were all complaining about the limitations of iBrowse and the like, and wanted CSS support. Think about why CSS was created, too.
Lou: You guys are trying to acheive a monumental step forward.
That's kind of the point to making a "new" system.
You did originally compare GameCube to the AmigaOne, not to old PPC-accelerated Amiga hardware, like an expanded A4000.
Lou: Amiga OS is a fast single-user OS. I don't need all the features of os 'xxx'.
Take a look at the kernel of a modern OS. Multi-user support is piddling. Even embedded OSes like QNX support it. The lack of core features usually relates to a lack of foresight and development time, rather than trying to skim on system resources.
Note that security largely depends on groups. Obscurity is hardly a justification for the lack of security, as filesystem security is important for more things than keeping out viruses, you know.
Of course, that's reaching a bit, given that most "real" OSes lock software out of the system, but give full access to what counts: "Home". Even UNIX security seems really flimsy to me.
MskoDestny: Or you could just get an old laptop and stick a flash drive in place of the hard drive.
Yeah, but it won't be PPC, which is all that matters, of course. We need to use a sub-$100 console which, when new, originally sold for, what, $250 wihtout any software?
Lou: Here's OS 4 with 2 docks open only using up 8MB out of a 256MB system:
It's hard to gague memory usage from screenshots wihout a real memory tracker application open.
I wonder how much memory they are using for disk caches and the like. Maybe caches don't show up at all as "used" memory, since technically caches are "free" memory that's released to applications when they need it.
Hardly worth arguing about in the PC world, but for embedded-class hardware, every killobyte counts.
Lou: Amiga-On-Nintendo won't replace my PC but when I can show it around and then say that new more powerful dedicated hardware that can run this OS is around the corner, then some people may go "hmmm...", providing the price is right and the apps are there, ofcourse.
Ah, reality is starting to sink in, now.
Except for the fact that developing for GameCube without Nintendo's help is next to impossible. Unlike the GCLinux team, Amiga and Hyperion are commercial companies. I don't think Nintendo would like it if OS4 was released... and there's still issues with compatibility.
And, yes, GCLinux is still struggling to get even basic features implemented. If Amiga counts on people running OS4 on used/bargain bin hardware, instead of new systems, they'll end up having to reverse-engineer everything just like the GCLinux team.
You did mention in another thread that you're not into making Nintendo a profit. I don't think they'll like that idea very much. :-)
Lou: But without affordable hardware to run the OS on, how will there ever be a demand of the OS?
Ask the hundreds of millions of people who own PCs.
Ask the millions of people who spent $300+ on a glossy-looking, over-hyped MP3 player.
Ask the millions who will spend $50-$100 for a new cell phone because the one that came with their calling plan is too cheap.
Ask the "1000+ a day" that are buying "cheap" Mac minis for $500 or more.
Ask the people that are actually buying those Godawful plasma TVs for $1,000+ when they look like crap from a standard analog signal.
Seems like you think all people have money except Amigans. Oh, and even hobbyists need more options than a game machine that must be soldered together or have special custom hardware built for a proprietery serial port (regardless of performance).
I thought the whole point of making a new Amiga is that we don't have to do this frankenstein crap, anymore. It's unfortunate that Amiga has chosen the Teron as the base system, but you need to evaluate more options. There are plenty of cool-running, portable, affordable PCs. If you can't think of any, ask Google.
Better yet, stop wasting time pining over GameCube, and ask Amiga/Hyperion why they can't actually deliver CPU-independent code running on a real, modern embedded OS.
Obviously, they don't care. That's all that really matters in the end, and five years from now, when every handheld computer has 128+ MB of memory, the idea of running OS4 on proprietary game machines run by companies that don't give a damn about real operating systems and won't help OS developers with real hardware documentation, will still look absurd.
Lou: Oh and outside of running OS4, a Gamecube is much more useful than an A1, afterall a Gamecube is still a Gamecube. Modded, it's still a fully functional Gamecube.
Interesting. Many people made a point that if Amiga went x86 and was dual-bootable with Windows, nobody would use it.
The cost of the SD card is a bit of a wash as some people may already have them in a camera...or eventually will. So it also has some value outside of this project.
You know, I have an old, spare PC. Lots of people do. We could have an Amiga for nothing more than a software fee! Wow! Granted, some things may have to run in safe mode or flat mode due to a lack of specific chipset support, but since we're considering GameCube, obviously overall performance and functionality isn't an issue.
Lou, you don't have to lower the costs even more by touting re-usability of parts. There is a prime selling point for all devices, and people have a gray area of negotiation. There are many new cars for $10,000, but nobody buys them. GameCube is simply below the cheap threshold. People want more.
It's just about getting Amiga out of the early 90's.
And into the late 20th century. :-)
Lou: How many copies of OS 4 could they sell now?
MskoDestny:Not enough to make the porting effort worthwhile.
If the port is difficult (lack of documentation, dev tools, and Nintendo's support), then it is more expensive, too. A lot of wasted effort when the next big thing comes along. Revolution may be similar to GameCube, but it is not the same, and at some point, people will want laptops and more traditional computers.
Given how long it's taking OS4 just to be released, I'm sure everyone can agree that porting OSes, especially to platforms that are not compatible with PC standards, is not an easy or cheap task. Also, GameCube is almost end-of-lifed, just like the AmigaOne.
MskoDestny: There are a bunch of lightweight graphical operating systems with more modern software than OS4 does. Some of them are even free.
Yup. OS4 is being made by Hyperion because Amiga Inc. didn't want to do it. Doesn't that say something, Lou?
Maybe you should stop blaming AmigaOne for being expensive and blame the people in charge. Everyone knows AmigaOne is overpriced, and it's that way because somebody in the head office (investors, or whatever), wanted it that way.
