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Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #359 on: September 28, 2005, 04:46:12 PM »
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Waccoon wrote:
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OS3.X is a good enough OS for a single user with some updates.

Good enough?  To do what?

To do what I mentioned.

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A GC running AROS and a web browser and email client and games.

Well, the reason why your setup is so simple is because of your expectations.  E-mail is just text transfer.  Games don't need an OS -- they just hit the hardware.  The browser is complicated because of heavy multitasking, and I'd imagine AROS is going to give you some trouble in that regard.  Is there even a CSS web browser available for AROS?

You can do this stuff with a Windows machine, too, if you know how to select your parts.  I'd expect it to be just as cheap, if not cheaper, than your system.  How much did you pay for this qoob thing, again?  Didn't you have some trouble soldering it?  Why go through all the trouble of hacking when there's ready-built solutions available?  Amigans don't seem to get this at all.


the qoob was $55, it's 6 wires to solder and just screws to takes apart the GC.  It can be done in less than 10 minutes.  I used a 30 watt iron when I should have used 15, left heat on the pad too long.  Simple mistake if I had read the reviews of other people doing it, it wouldn't have happened.  My solution is better AND easier than the other way anyway.

there is no ready-built solution, a PDA is not a game machine and doesn't use DVD's, a laptop is too delicate to be bounced around in a car everyday, plus it's bigger than a GC.  And if the GC breaks (RARE) a second GC is $50 away, not $700 for a descent laptop.

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The device is truly portable and there aren't any hard drives that would get banged around and ruined. Get where I'm going?

Oh, so you don't want a potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP.  You want a homebrew PDA.  I think the computer industry already released a slew of those devices a decade ago.  What's the point of insisting on an Amiga if you're going to spend all your time staring at an application that doesn't really care what OS is underneath?  I find it difficult to believe that AmigaOS (or AROS) is just "better" at e-mail and web browsing than any other small OS that fits nicely on a flash card.
[/quote]

An OS used to be an app launcher with a filemanager.  What they sell you now is a total user environment.  Things are so integrated that you don't get 100% processing power out of the machine because you have the OS layer there.  An OS should just control basic things like threading and memnory management - everything else is an add-on (read - slow down).  Sure the OS provides some standard api's to make things 'look' & 'feel' like they are part of the OS, but that should be it.  When I want to bang the hardware, I should be able to bang the hardware.  And it's not about being better, it's about being functional and doing what I want - nothing less, nothing more.

PS, the Amiga was only supposed to be a console.
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #360 on: October 03, 2005, 05:17:57 PM »
Update:

Linux boots on my Gamecube and connects to my PC's NDBserver for the filesystem...

However, I couldn't SSH the GC from my PC using Putty.  I think it's just a gateway setting though.  I'll play with it some more this week.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #361 on: October 03, 2005, 05:27:53 PM »
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Karlos wrote:
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Given how few tools are available, and the fact that OS3 doesn't have proper resource tracking or memory protection, it's fair to say OS3 is more of an application launcher rather than an OS... at least by modern standards. The apps do everything and the OS does hardly anything, much like old Macs. If that's your expectation of a modern OS, well, you can really use anything.


AmigaOS kernel is *nothing at all* like the old macos. It may not have memory protection, but that does not disqualify it from being an OS.

As for resource tracking, there are some, albeit for very low level stuff. For example memory pools mean I don't have to actually track specific memory allocation. I can release the entire pool in one go.

-edit-

Comparing it to classic 68K mac OS suggests some lack of understanding of both systems.

Since when on amigaos did you ever need to specify the amount of heap for a program? Since when did any amigaos task have to relinquish the CPU to allow another one to run? The 'cooperative multitasking' model employed in macos simply isn't multitasking at all, whereas the amiga always had a preemptive model.


Don't forget that MacOS 68k, actually used 68k exceptions to implement system calls :-o

Offline Karlos

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #362 on: October 03, 2005, 11:44:36 PM »
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bloodline wrote:

Don't forget that MacOS 68k, actually used 68k exceptions to implement system calls :-o


True, I forgot about that. Well, I suppose they had to get into supervisor mode somehow :lol:
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Offline MskoDestny

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #363 on: October 04, 2005, 03:02:29 AM »
Don't most operating systems use an exception/software interrupt for OS calls? How does Amiga OS do it? Short of everything running in supervisor mode I don't see any way around it.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #364 on: October 04, 2005, 08:06:05 AM »
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MskoDestny wrote:
Don't most operating systems use an exception/software interrupt for OS calls? How does Amiga OS do it? Short of everything running in supervisor mode I don't see any way around it.


In AmigaOS system calls are simple jumps to an address... alomst everthing is run in User Mode, AFAIK Supervisor Mode is only used for context switching, and most often that is caused by an interupt (which runs in Superviosr Mode anyway)

Offline Karlos

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #365 on: October 10, 2005, 03:23:52 AM »
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bloodline wrote:

In AmigaOS system calls are simple jumps to an address... alomst everthing is run in User Mode, AFAIK Supervisor Mode is only used for context switching, and most often that is caused by an interupt (which runs in Superviosr Mode anyway)


Interrupts (well you already said), and traps are the other things that run in supervisor mode. Task exceptions too maybe (not sure about that one, I'd need to check). As you say, just about everything else runs in user mode, which is a good thing IMO. Every time apple moved to a new 68K CPU there were all sorts of minor OS level issues, invariably fixed by getting different roms...
int p; // A
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #366 on: October 10, 2005, 10:38:31 AM »
This thread still going?
Well as the subjects of homebrew PDA's, consoles and Linux have all come up perhaps this might provoke some more debate: http://www.gbax.com/main.pl
A dual 200Mhz portable Amiga?  :inquisitive:
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Offline Piru

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #367 on: October 10, 2005, 10:50:34 AM »
@lou_dias

Regarding this daydream of your GC "Amiga"... Wake up already, nothing will happen unless if YOU do something about it. No one else will. Meanwhile, there is no need to try spam this thread further.

This OT discussion should be posted as new threads.

And no, I won't take the bait. Artificially bumping the thread to top of the forum is {bleep}ing lame.

I might seem a bit stressed, but my tolerance to bs has lowered lately. Sorry about that.
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #368 on: October 10, 2005, 11:31:02 AM »
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Piru wrote:
@lou_dias

Regarding this daydream of your GC "Amiga"... Wake up already, nothing will happen unless if YOU do something about it. No one else will. Meanwhile, there is no need to try spam this thread further.

This OT discussion should be posted as new threads.


You woke me up for that babble? :-?
If you want the thread moved, complain to a moderator, otherwise, just stay out.

I'm going back to sleep now.  :-D

Oh and I can't seem to connect to my 'Cube using an SSH client.  It seems I need a better Linux distribution as some things are failing to initialize.  Although it does connect to my filesystem properly.  I think part of the problem is that I may not have my network settings properly set up on the PC side.  I don't know if I should assign the GC's gateway as the ip of the NIC that it's connected to or the ip of my DHCP enabled router...Or the ip of the card that's actually wired to the router...
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #369 on: October 10, 2005, 11:59:35 AM »
Maybe i'm a wierdo, but i play games on my gamecube.... Running AOS4 on my game cube would make it less usefull to me... If i could install AOS4 on one of the 6 macs i got laying around, now that would be cool.
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #370 on: October 10, 2005, 12:11:34 PM »
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Piru wrote:
And no, I won't take the bait. Artificially bumping the thread to top of the forum is {bleep}ing lame.


OOhh Stressed! ...Just relax a little... ..computers are fun after all. If this thread is making you feel angry then do something else.

Ditto on the Mac comment Koaftder.
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #371 on: October 10, 2005, 12:21:49 PM »
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Piru wrote:

This OT discussion should be posted as new threads.

And no, I won't take the bait. Artificially bumping the thread to top of the forum is {bleep}ing lame.


Sorry that was me. I wasn't really paying attention and just commented about the interrupt thing :-/
int p; // A
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #372 on: October 10, 2005, 03:29:10 PM »
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Karlos wrote:
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Piru wrote:

This OT discussion should be posted as new threads.

And no, I won't take the bait. Artificially bumping the thread to top of the forum is {bleep}ing lame.


Sorry that was me. I wasn't really paying attention and just commented about the interrupt thing :-/


Actually I would say that was on topic.
There interrupts are the base of any OS.

The 1.7MB linux kernal boots up in my GC and connects to my ndbserver in less than 7 seconds total.

A much smaller Amiga OS 3.x ported to PPC or AROS PPC could do the same much faster...  Even combining the 512k 3.1 ROMS with the OS bootup, AOS3.1 takes up ~768k.  That's more than enough to fit on my modchip's flashram and that just gets copied to mainram on bootup...if it were ported...

Now, I don't know anything about WarpUp or any of those PPC hack-ons...  But are they running a AOS on the PPC side?  Or are they just a co-processor set-up?
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #373 on: October 10, 2005, 09:44:49 PM »
how to make a bootable disc on the Gamecube to run homebrew/IPL replacement code:

http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Building_a_Bootable_Disc
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #374 from previous page: October 10, 2005, 11:27:40 PM »
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lou_dias wrote:
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Karlos wrote:
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Piru wrote:

This OT discussion should be posted as new threads.

And no, I won't take the bait. Artificially bumping the thread to top of the forum is {bleep}ing lame.


Sorry that was me. I wasn't really paying attention and just commented about the interrupt thing :-/


Actually I would say that was on topic.
There interrupts are the base of any OS.

The 1.7MB linux kernal boots up in my GC and connects to my ndbserver in less than 7 seconds total.

A much smaller Amiga OS 3.x ported to PPC or AROS PPC could do the same much faster...  Even combining the 512k 3.1 ROMS with the OS bootup, AOS3.1 takes up ~768k.  That's more than enough to fit on my modchip's flashram and that just gets copied to mainram on bootup...if it were ported...

Now, I don't know anything about WarpUp or any of those PPC hack-ons...  But are they running a AOS on the PPC side?  Or are they just a co-processor set-up?


There is no set rule that an OS has to use software interrupts to provide services, and not all processors have instructions for software based interrupts.