potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP

[Trezzer]

I still can't put a system together with case, psu and the power that's in the Xbox at the same price point that the Xbox has. Maybe prices are different in your part of the world.

As for the GameCube... OS4 will never ever run on that. Not in a million years.

[MskoDestny]

lou_dias wrote:
My argument against the Xbox is thatt for $150 these days, I can already buy a full PC that outperforms the XBOX.

The cheapest I've been able to buy a motherboard and processor for is $100.  Add in a hard drive, case, power supply and optical drive and I'm easily over $150.  Besides, add in all the stuff you've added to your GC and I'm sure the Gamecube's price advantage goes away.

Also, I already own an Athlon 3200+ PC with a Gig of RAM, why would I want an XBOX?

Why would you want a Gamecube for a computer?  It's no more powerful than the XBox, probably less for certain tasks. Apart from having a cute little box that fits under your TV, there's not much point in using either as a computer if you've already got a faster one.

The Amiga community decided they wanted a PPC-based Amiga.  The GC gives them that at a low cost of entry.

I think the Amiga community is rather divided on what they want. Some want PowerPC machines, some want x86 machines (as seen by the development of AROS), some want ColdFire machines. There are at least a handful that have moved on and think that trying to bring the Amiga back is a waste of time. From a practical point of view, PowerPC makes sense if you want to run some of the PowerPC native Amiga software; however, at the moment AROS has no ability to run any of this, even if you get it running on a PPC machine. Someone needs to write an appropriate compatibility layer.

You don't need a modchip to run homebrew code on a GC.  Phantasy Star Online attempts to download a new executable from the broadband adapter, this is where you can trick it to run your own code and what started the homebrew revolution on the GC.

On the Dreamcast I just stick the disc in and it boots.  Can't get much easier than that. No funky exploits, no wires, no modchips, it just works.

[Louis Dias]

MskoDestny wrote:

The cheapest I've been able to buy a motherboard and processor for is $100.  Add in a hard drive, case, power supply and optical drive and I'm easily over $150.  Besides, add in all the stuff you've added to your GC and I'm sure the Gamecube's price advantage goes away.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1447090&CatId=118

by the time you spend money on a bigger hard drive for the Xbox, how much have you spent?

Why would you want a Gamecube for a computer?  It's no more powerful than the XBox, probably less for certain tasks. Apart from having a cute little box that fits under your TV, there's not much point in using either as a computer if you've already got a faster one.

I don't want a Gamecube for a computer, I want AOS4 on cheap hardware and that's the cheapest.  Only buy being affordable can the community grow.  It's also easy to program for.  The whole 'unknown' and 'propriety' issue is dead.  The homebrew people have documented this hardware very well.   How else would Linux, emulators, media players and even a gcc compiler be able to run on this system ALREADY.

I think the Amiga community is rather divided on what they want. Some want PowerPC machines, some want x86 machines (as seen by the development of AROS), some want ColdFire machines. There are at least a handful that have moved on and think that trying to bring the Amiga back is a waste of time. From a practical point of view, PowerPC makes sense if you want to run some of the PowerPC native Amiga software; however, at the moment AROS has no ability to run any of this, even if you get it running on a PPC machine. Someone needs to write an appropriate compatibility layer.

supposedly there is an ongoing AROS ppc port...

You don't need a modchip to run homebrew code on a GC.  Phantasy Star Online attempts to download a new executable from the broadband adapter, this is where you can trick it to run your own code and what started the homebrew revolution on the GC.

On the Dreamcast I just stick the disc in and it boots.  Can't get much easier than that. No funky exploits, no wires, no modchips, it just works.[/quote]

Well I imagine the average homebrew developer isn't above doing the trivial things needed to get their code to run on whatever system they choose.

Ideally, I'd like to see Hyperion, Eyetech and Amiga come together and get a Gamecube license and port OS4 completely and have Eyetech produce a device like the planned IBM Gamecube hard drive adapter...that way Eyetech isn't out of the loop and no bridges are burned.

[MskoDestny]

I'd like to see how you plan to convince Amiga Inc. to port AOS4 to the Gamecube when they have thus far expressed little interest in porting to PowerPC Macs.  They're no more proprietary than a Gamecube and make a lot more sense as a computer.

lou_dias wrote:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1447090&CatId=118

That's a refurb (i.e. used computer) and it's only below $200 after a mail-in rebate which are horribly unreliable (and at the very least slow) even from TigerDirect with their little gurantee.

by the time you spend money on a bigger hard drive for the Xbox, how much have you spent?

Why would I need a bigger hard drive?  8GB is enough for AROS and I could always use your network drive strategy.  Besides, current XBoxes actually ship with a 20GB drive.  It's just partitioned to 8GB.

I don't want a Gamecube for a computer, I want AOS4 on cheap hardware and that's the cheapest.  Only buy being affordable can the community grow.  It's also easy to program for.  The whole 'unknown' and 'propriety' issue is dead.  The homebrew people have documented this hardware very well.   How else would Linux, emulators, media players and even a gcc compiler be able to run on this system ALREADY.

None of those require a very complete understanding of the hardware. You just need to know where the memory is, how the processor works (largely a known entity since it's mostly a standard PPC chip) and where to access the framebuffer. As I understand it there aren't any decent 3D drivers fo GC Linux.

supposedly there is an ongoing AROS ppc port...

There is, but it doesn't work yet and when it does it still won't run programs written for AOS4, MOS, or WarpOS/PowerUp. A compatability layer still needs to be written.

Well I imagine the average homebrew developer isn't above doing the trivial things needed to get their code to run on whatever system they choose.

The problem isn't the developers, it's the end users. How many people are going to go through the trouble of getting homebrew booted on a GC to try out some hacked version of AOS4 or a GC port of AROS?

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:

I don't want a Gamecube for a computer, I want AOS4 on cheap hardware and that's the cheapest.  Only buy being affordable can the community grow.  It's also easy to program for.  The whole 'unknown' and 'propriety' issue is dead.  The homebrew people have documented this hardware very well.   How else would Linux, emulators, media players and even a gcc compiler be able to run on this system ALREADY.

The GCN (with gc-linux) ISN'T AFFORDABLE after you add in all the stuff you need (BBA, Mod chip, case, keyboard/mouse adapter, extra PC, etc.).

If cost is the main factor, then a Powermac G3 (Beige or B&W) would be a better choice since it's a real computer.

Ideally, I'd like to see Hyperion, Eyetech and Amiga come together and get a Gamecube license and port OS4 completely and have Eyetech produce a device like the planned IBM Gamecube hard drive adapter...that way Eyetech isn't out of the loop and no bridges are burned.

Have you talked to Hyperion, Eyetech and Amiga, Inc. yet?  (I know this has been asked dozens of times in this thread, but it's the logical place to start...)  Or was this thread just a big troll?

[Louis Dias]

MskoDestny wrote:
I'd like to see how you plan to convince Amiga Inc. to port AOS4 to the Gamecube when they have thus far expressed little interest in porting to PowerPC Macs.  They're no more proprietary than a Gamecube and make a lot more sense as a computer.

Just stating the ideal thing, not how it will happen.

Why would I need a bigger hard drive?  8GB is enough for AROS and I could always use your network drive strategy.  Besides, current XBoxes actually ship with a 20GB drive.  It's just partitioned to 8GB.

Again, I view the XBOX as a crippled PC.  Why get that when for a few dollars more I can get the real thing...which I already have anyway (PC)...

I don't want a Gamecube for a computer, I want AOS4 on cheap hardware and that's the cheapest.  Only buy being affordable can the community grow.  It's also easy to program for.  The whole 'unknown' and 'propriety' issue is dead.  The homebrew people have documented this hardware very well.   How else would Linux, emulators, media players and even a gcc compiler be able to run on this system ALREADY.

None of those require a very complete understanding of the hardware. You just need to know where the memory is, how the processor works (largely a known entity since it's mostly a standard PPC chip) and where to access the framebuffer. As I understand it there aren't any decent 3D drivers fo GC Linux.

SDL has been ported and there are 3D homebrew games running on the GC.

supposedly there is an ongoing AROS ppc port...

There is, but it doesn't work yet and when it does it still won't run programs written for AOS4, MOS, or WarpOS/PowerUp. A compatability layer still needs to be written.

As far as OS4... once the GC is established as the 'bottom-end' machine and A1 as top-end, and the core libraries defined, you could include 2 different compiled versions of an app on a CD/DVD.  The media files are the same and that is usually the biggest chunk of a package.  As far a compiling, it would boil down to using one 'makefile' vs. another...

Well I imagine the average homebrew developer isn't above doing the trivial things needed to get their code to run on whatever system they choose.

The problem isn't the developers, it's the end users. How many people are going to go through the trouble of getting homebrew booted on a GC to try out some hacked version of AOS4 or a GC port of AROS?[/quote]

Well, let me ask you this?  What person who is used to Wintel is going to abandon the PC for an A1?  This is a niche hobbyist's market.  Until a hobbyist can use AOS hardware and software daily without the need for Windows or OS X, the Amiga market will never grow.

Even for hobbyists, the A1 is a high price point.

Show what you can do with a lowly gamecube, then when the apps are all there and supported, upgrade to an A1(or 2 or whatever).

There are more Amiga users with Gamecubes than there are Amigans with A1's.

Target the GC and your OS4 user-base just jump up ALOT.  Now maybe somebody wants Ibrowse and SimpleMail.  Now Shogo would run nice on a OS4-GC...and whatever else Hyperion ports to OS4...

Amigans have been hacking and wedging crap hardware to "upgrade" there machines for years.  The GC solution doesn't look so bad when you think about it.

With a Qoob chip, the OS could boot in a second.  If you get an earlier GC with the DV out option, you can hook it up to a traditional monitor and get a nice 852x480 or 640x480 display.

It wouldn't even be illegal to resell qoob chips with a Linux or AROS, or whatever core pre-flashed on it.
Sell a bundle with Qoob Pro (pre-flashed with whatever os), case mod, 2 ps/2 adapters for mouse and keyboard.  Optional component cable->VGA adapter.  Optional Samba compatible net-server for HD storage and an OS4 CD/DVD for the rest of the OS...

[MskoDestny]

lou_dias wrote:
Well, let me ask you this?  What person who is used to Wintel is going to abandon the PC for an A1?  This is a niche hobbyist's market.  Until a hobbyist can use AOS hardware and software daily without the need for Windows or OS X, the Amiga market will never grow.

The Amiga market won't grow until there is a compelling reason for people to switch. The only thing I see pushing people off of Wintel is fear of viruses and spyware, but I haven't seen that push anyone to the Amiga. Mac or Linux maybe, but not Amiga. AOS4 or AROS on the Gamecube won't change that. Even a more mature version of AROS for the PC won't have much of an effect without other forces coming into play.

[Louis Dias]

MskoDestny wrote:

The Amiga market won't grow until there is a compelling reason for people to switch. The only thing I see pushing people off of Wintel is fear of viruses and spyware, but I haven't seen that push anyone to the Amiga. Mac or Linux maybe, but not Amiga. AOS4 or AROS on the Gamecube won't change that. Even a more mature version of AROS for the PC won't have much of an effect without other forces coming into play.

Let me ask you this.
If every current classic Amiga user upgrade to OS4 on GC or A1, would you consider that growth?  I would.  Sales=growth.  Now that you have an installed base, now the 3rd parties see a viable market for releasing ports to the platform.  When enough of the applications that are required by John Q. Public to accomplish his day-to-day computing, then will the Amiga OS be an option instead of Windows.

Let me paint another picture.
Look at the size of the gamecube.  It's small.
I could easily mount it in a car with a 5-7" LCD.
Now I work for a manufacturing company, so they get these industrial catalogs with all sorts of neat stuff, like miniature keyboards and wireless-this&that. So now I could mount a mini keyboard with a mouse and attach a wireless access point and surf the web when I stop at Dunkin donuts for coffee in my car.

That's some nice bling bling without potentially ruining a laptop over time...

[Louis Dias]

Ok, it's official, I have my qoob chip, case mode and gamebit.  So I've spent &97.83 with shipping.  This case mod to put in 12cm DVD's was $24.99, others are only 14.99 but it comes with a nice qoob 3D'sticker' for the case.  Really, I just didn't feel like looking around.  The case mod is not a requirement as there are many suppliers of 8cm rewritable DVDs.

Although I already own a GC, I think I will go out an buy the Super Smash Bros. Meelee bubdle for $99 + $5.00 tax. and install it on that.  My personal 27" TV doesn't have component in so I will put the new system with mod in my room and move my old GC to the family living room and since I already own the digital component out cables for that, I will finally be able to play some games in all there splendor.

[Louis Dias]

well, I bougth the SSBM Bundle and didn't even play a game on it and just opened it up and soldered away...

When I put it back together, nothing happened so I need to check my connections.  I bought a cheapo soldering iron so my soldering was a bit shaky, lol...  Not like the good old days when I used to work at Motorola ISG division and was soldering with their $1500 irons.  I was assembling cable modems back in '96 or '97.

[InTheSand]

Hi,

Hope you haven't fried it! :-o

I'd be interested to see how you get on with the mod chip and new case. Have been considering doing the same to mine.

For now, though, I have a cheapo SD-card to GC converter on order, plus Action Replay, which will allow basic homebrew stuff to be run without hacking the case apart or relying on the Phantasy Star Online exploit.

One day.... someone might get UAE running on GC Linux!

 - Ali

[Waccoon]

Sales=growth.

Profit = growth.

[Louis Dias]

Waccoon wrote:

Sales=growth.

Profit = growth.

Well, Amiga isn't a console company which sells hardware at a loss... Hence Sales yields profits which yields growth.

Anyway, I just ordered Motorla Wireless 802.11g Ethernet Bridge WE800G to make my gamecube connect wirelessly to my pc.  $44.99 on Tigerdirect.  Now I don't have to give up my wired connection on the pc and can share the connection to the internet wirelessly.  GC<->PC<->internet.

I can email a picture of how I did it as far as the qoob chip install, personally using the Serial port 2 area would be ideal for the usb interface but the cable isn't long enough to channel it there.  I may just get some double-sided adhesive table and mount it to the side permenantly.

since this is a new GC, if my connections look good, I will remove the chip and replace the GC with a new one.  Just say that when I plugged it in it didn't work, and just have Walmart replace it with another brand new unit.

These newer 'Cubes don't have the digital display output or serial port 2 interface.

[Louis Dias]

I unsoldered everything and the GC worked fine.   When doing so I noticed my shoddy job soldering.  So I did it again and I think when removing(or soldering) the power line the first time around, I ruined the pad so I am waiting to here back from the qoob makers on an alternate place to supply power...

I also ordered this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?Sku=S195-2092 to give my cube wireless networking.  I've installed a wireless card in my PC to communicare with the 'Cube and I have a 75' wired internet connection going into my PC.

[MskoDestny]

AROS PPC is working in some form now to at least some extent.  I think it's a linux hosted version.  Not sure how much is actually working as I was too lazy to read the whole discussion on the mailing list.

[Louis Dias]

Update:

Haven't heard back from the makers of the qoob chip on an alternate power source.  I'll try the 'boards' next.

Got my 50" 1280x720 16:9 Samsung DLP TV in.  Plugged in my original Cube's component cables - and was blown away.  F-Zero GX is brand new all over again.  As are many games.

How about that Revolution 3D spacial controller? Sweet!  And the 'behind closed doors' demos that the editors got to see had it running on a good old Gamecube!  Since they did a Metroid Prime 2 demo with the controller, maybe they'll release an MP2 Special Edition!  That would look excellent on my new TV.

I wonder if the Cube's RAMDAC can be pushed to a 1280x720 display...  This TV has a VGA-in and my Windows desktop looked pretty sharp on it.

Now let's see, AO4 on Revolution with that controller (direct pointing device) replacing a mouse - excellent indeed.

In the meantime, I think I will order the SD card adapter/loader ($14.99).  That way I can get Linux running on the GC sooner than later.  I also ordered a PS/2->Serial adapter so I can plug in a ps/2 mouse into my pc and see what it's sending to the serial port.  I may write a mouse driver for the ps/2->Gamecube controller adapter that I have.