potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP

[Louis Dias]

Well, AROS is the best we can get without any support from Hyperion.  I couldn't find any PPC port of AROS but since the source is available, anything is possible.

Since the qoob mod chip has 2MB of flash memory for custom BIOS's...I'm sure Hyperion could get there 'UBOOT'(I think that's what it's called) BIOS code ported to it with a quickness.  But would they...  Heck, didn't they open source that?  Now if they only would open-source the OS4 HAL...

I already own 1 of these: http://www.mayflash.com/gc/gc020/GC%20020-1.asp

Another would let me plug in both a keyboard and mouse...however, the qoob chip PRO version includes a USB port...so there are possibilities there as well.

[AmireX]

After some expierences with linux and netbsd on amiga hardware I believe that I have more amiga feeling with AROS or WINUAE on a stupid PC than the wrong OS on a classic hardware.

So I'll try to start support AROS. The last status update looks quite good and we need a open system with source code access to adapt it to any future hardware, because hardware is changing very fast and it took a long time to AOS4.0 which is bundled with a good but rare hardware. AROS will run on millions of machines and so the comunity can grow again :-)

[Louis Dias]

Great news!
I just found out I am refinancing on Friday so I will have loads of disposable income.  I will be ordering the qoob chip and case mod bundle shortly as well as SDLoad card reader.

I'd like to flash to qoob chip with the UBOOT BIOS. UBOOT can be ported to Gamecube hardware just like it was ported to A1 hardware.  Maybe the GC-linux people can get this done.  It's better than the PSOload hack.

SAMBA could be used to access network hard drives.  Hopefully someone would write a USB port driver that accesses the qoob chip's USB port.

No VIA DMA/IDE bug
no usb stack bug
no overpriced extremely outdated hardware

and an easy upgrade path to Nintendo Revolution hardware.  Not to mention Revolution being able to offer downloadable Amiga (ported) apps running on the Nintendo DS...and that feature is already built-in to the DS.

Picture Super Skidmarks ported to use Revolution as a server and have 8 Nintendo DS's running Super Skidmarks and racing against each other!  on-line!

[billt]

>no overpriced extremely outdated hardware
...
> I just found out I am refinancing on Friday so I will have loads of disposable income.

You have to refinance (I'm guessing mortgage) in order to get this stuff?! Wow, I'm sure there's a huge market for running AmigaOS on such expensively hacked hardware.

>and an easy upgrade path to Nintendo Revolution hardware

For games developers perhaps. If you take away their OS, is the hardware register compatible with GameCube hardware, or will new drivers have to be written? I'd expect the latter. Can we get proper documentation for both to develop drivers for? Can we get CPU docs to properly support those, to avoid compatibility issues like the 750GX in uA1 did initially?

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:
I'd like to flash to qoob chip with the UBOOT BIOS. UBOOT can be ported to Gamecube hardware just like it was ported to A1 hardware.  Maybe the GC-linux people can get this done.  It's better than the PSOload hack.

This won't work.  The Quub firmware is not a generic BIOS like UBOOT, but a specific application for bypassing Nintendos copy protection.

SAMBA could be used to access network hard drives.

Why Samba?  Samba has a lot of overhead, and will really show how slow the 10mb/s half duplex NIC in the GCN is.  It would be much better to use NFS.

Hopefully someone would write a USB port driver that accesses the qoob chip's USB port.

That's not what the USB port is for.  The qoob is a USB device, not a controller.  The usb port is only there for programming the qoob chip.

No VIA DMA/IDE bug

No IDE at all.  In fact, no usable re-writable local filesystem at all.  

no usb stack bug

Again, no USB, so no bug.  Hmm...

no overpriced extremely outdated hardware

I'll give you that much, the GCN is cheap.  But, it's definately outdated.    

and an easy upgrade path to Nintendo Revolution hardware.  Not to mention Revolution being able to offer downloadable Amiga (ported) apps running on the Nintendo DS...and that feature is already built-in to the DS.

Picture Super Skidmarks ported to use Revolution as a server and have 8 Nintendo DS's running Super Skidmarks and racing against each other!  on-line!

Huh?  So, write a new game, add multiplayer, and it's related to Amiga or the old game how?  You need to start checking your facts a bit more.  It's fun to read your sometimes insane rambling but I'd hate it if you really spent real money trying to make the GCN a computer.  It just isn't usable as one.  If you are serious about getting a <$200 Linux box then you can pick up an older computer that will do just fine.  

[Tripitaka]

Nice to see someone thinking about how to make this work. Forgive my ignorance here but what's the situation as far as AmigaDE on the DS?

[Dan]

Tripitaka wrote:
Nice to see someone thinking about how to make this work. Forgive my ignorance here but what's the situation as far as AmigaDE on the DS?

Just append the two letters you forgot ...AD :lol:

[Tripitaka]

I was asking a serious question. Is there a way to run DE on a DS? :hammer:

[Doobrey]

Tripitaka wrote:
Is there a way to run DE on a DS? :hammer:

Apart from ripping the guts out and replacing them with a PocketPC PDA, or paying Amiga Inc $$$$ to port it, nope.
 Why do you want DE anyway?

[Tripitaka]

I see, I take it that's not happening then.

Doobrey wrote:

 Why do you want DE anyway?

Just Curious. You see, many years ago (about 16) I knew pretty much everything anyone (save developers) could know about the Amiga at the time. However, my little 'miggy sat dorment for about 9 of those years (shame on me). Now, after years of hibernation I return to my old friend and learn anew. In short, I wont know if I don't ask.....but as you mentioned it, what is the point of DE? I know what it does and understand what it could be (elate is pretty cool), however, it seems to me Fleecy is happy selling very average puzzle games to mobile/pocket pc users. This adds nothing to the Amiga as I see it so I guess the question is: Why would any Amigan want DE anyway?

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:
I'd like to flash to qoob chip with the UBOOT BIOS. UBOOT can be ported to Gamecube hardware just like it was ported to A1 hardware.  Maybe the GC-linux people can get this done.  It's better than the PSOload hack.

This won't work.  The Quub firmware is not a generic BIOS like UBOOT, but a specific application for bypassing Nintendos copy protection.

[/quote]

qoob supports booting from a flashed bios, I'm not replacing the qoob's firmware but taking advantage of it's features.  Here's a list: http://www.qoobchip.com/gcm.html

SAMBA could be used to access network hard drives.

Why Samba?  Samba has a lot of overhead, and will really show how slow the 10mb/s half duplex NIC in the GCN is.  It would be much better to use NFS.

Show me proof that it's half duplexed as you say.  I think you are making up your own facts again.  Also, NFS is already supported on gc-linux.org's linux package.  If AOS does support that already so much the better.

Hopefully someone would write a USB port driver that accesses the qoob chip's USB port.

That's not what the USB port is for.  The qoob is a USB device, not a controller.  The usb port is only there for programming the qoob chip.

[/quote]

if the bios code can be patched (which it can) and the code to access the usb port is in the bios, then any app can be written to do the same thing.

No VIA DMA/IDE bug

No IDE at all.  In fact, no usable re-writable local filesystem at all.

again that's what NFS is for...  Also, there is a memory card to usb adapter, not to mention a usb port courtesy of the qoob chip.  So USB HD's, DVD burners, printers are all possible.

no usb stack bug

Again, no USB, so no bug.  Hmm...

see my comments above about usb

no overpriced extremely outdated hardware

I'll give you that much, the GCN is cheap.  But, it's definately outdated.

I'm perfectly happy with extremely underpriced slightly outdated hardware than that or PITA ultra out-dated classic hardware.

and an easy upgrade path to Nintendo Revolution hardware.  Not to mention Revolution being able to offer downloadable Amiga (ported) apps running on the Nintendo DS...and that feature is already built-in to the DS.

Picture Super Skidmarks ported to use Revolution as a server and have 8 Nintendo DS's running Super Skidmarks and racing against each other!  on-line!

Huh?  So, write a new game, add multiplayer, and it's related to Amiga or the old game how?  You need to start checking your facts a bit more.  It's fun to read your sometimes insane rambling but I'd hate it if you really spent real money trying to make the GCN a computer.  It just isn't usable as one.  If you are serious about getting a <$200 Linux box then you can pick up an older computer that will do just fine.  

excuse me... the key words there were 'picture' as in picture this...and 'port'.  A port.  And it is just a vision to realize possibilities...  

It's just as much fun to read your grotesque ctitiques.  

Maybe someday you will grow from adolescent to adult, eh?

[Louis Dias]

billt wrote:
You have to refinance (I'm guessing mortgage) in order to get this stuff?! Wow, I'm sure there's a huge market for running AmigaOS on such expensively hacked hardware.

Well, it boils down to disposable income.  I left my IT job in 2002 and just got back into the industry less than 2 months ago.  I'm a VB.NET developer now (vs. VB6 and VFP6)...making half the money I was making before but it still beats what I was doing for the past 3 years...which was CRAP!  The point is that now I can start experimenting.

Since you like writing ATI drivers ( ) why don't you check out gc-linux.org and write a driver for them guys.

>and an easy upgrade path to Nintendo Revolution hardware

For games developers perhaps. If you take away their OS, is the hardware register compatible with GameCube hardware, or will new drivers have to be written? I'd expect the latter. Can we get proper documentation for both to develop drivers for? Can we get CPU docs to properly support those, to avoid compatibility issues like the 750GX in uA1 did initially?

Hey, I'm just saying that it's easier, not easy.    Atleast it's evolution vs. displacement.

[billt]

> Since you like writing ATI drivers ( ) why don't you
> check out gc-linux.org and write a driver for them guys.

There's a number of reasons.

Time - I've got my day job, the driver thing, a rental property to keep up, I'm on the board of directors for a non-profit organization, and a couple other projects. There's only so many hours in the day, and I have to start saying no to things or I'll never finish anything for any of them. My day job can be quite demanding, and must take priority over anything else. You have no idea how much time or effort can be involved with this, I do, and I'm not up for it.

Documentation - I don't have any for hte Gamecube's chip. Just because ATI fabs it doesn't mean it has any relation whatsoever to Radeon. As I understand they bought the company that was designing this chip, so I have no reason to expect the registers are laid out even remotely the same as what I know about.

Licensing - it seems the Linux on Gamecube guys do not want any contributions from anyone that has the official Nintendo SDK or any official documentation from Nintendo. Nintendo's SDK/documentation NDAs probably do not allow implementing their secret stuff into open-source software. Seems these Linux guys are afraid that such a situation could be bad for the legality of the project. So proper documented support of anything there is actually unwanted, and I am not going to go to the extreme efforts to buy an logic analyzer (these can cost half as much as my house did!) and then spend enormous amounts of time probing around to try and figure out how things work.

There's other issues that I can't discuss.

Besides, I'd have to buy a Gamecube and all those addons for it, and I've got far higher priorities to spend money on than all that stuff.

> Atleast it's evolution vs. displacement.

That doesn't mean a driver for Gamecube will work on Revolution. For the games developers, the API may be the same, but for drivers hitting the hardware, the registers may not be. And with the Linux guys not wanting real NDAed documentation to pollute their legality, it'd be too much work and expense for me to bother finding out.

[MskoDestny]

I can't believe this thread is still alive.

if the bios code can be patched (which it can) and the code to access the usb port is in the bios, then any app can be written to do the same thing.

The qoob is a USB slave and cannot be connected to another USB slave (like a keyboard or hard drive) no matter what kind of software is behind it.  You need a USB host, which the qoob lacks.

I also don't see what the point is, unless you've managed to convince Amiga, Inc. to license OS 4 for the Gamecube.  If you're going to just hack it to run unlicensed I can't imagine why you just wouldn't shoot for the Mac mini.  It's relatively inexpensive and already has all the necessary stuff to be a proper computer.

[Louis Dias]

MskoDestny wrote:
I can't believe this thread is still alive.

if the bios code can be patched (which it can) and the code to access the usb port is in the bios, then any app can be written to do the same thing.

The qoob is a USB slave and cannot be connected to another USB slave (like a keyboard or hard drive) no matter what kind of software is behind it.  You need a USB host, which the qoob lacks.

I also don't see what the point is, unless you've managed to convince Amiga, Inc. to license OS 4 for the Gamecube.  If you're going to just hack it to run unlicensed I can't imagine why you just wouldn't shoot for the Mac mini.  It's relatively inexpensive and already has all the necessary stuff to be a proper computer.

OK, bear with me on the problems with it being a slave.

are you saying the the 2MB flashable memory shows up like a Removable drive on windows like plugging in a camera?

Also, I've seen usb keyboard that act as a usb hub.  They offer usb ports right on the keyboard so I still don't see the limitation there.  A serial bus supports I/O.  In AND Out.  Otherwise, plugging it in would never register with Windows that a device was plugged in.

Yes, the base Mac Mini is cheap ($499)...why would a windows user buy a Mac to be an Amiga?  Also, porting issues aren't much different there.  Since I already own a GC my costs for the BBA, ps/2 adapters, SD card reader and Qoob chip add up to $120.  That's like buying 2 new and 1 used games.  www.gcdev.com has homebrew downloadable games to justify the purchase.  It's entertainment value for me right now just to see how far I can go.  $499 is not entertaining.  It's not bad, but I'd much rather spend that kind of money on a performance exhaust for my car, lol!

I'm trying to draw support for OS4 on Ninendo Gamecube and Revolution.  OS3 is not an OS for today's user.  MAC is losing ground and hopes to lower their entry costs to the platform by going to Intel hardware.  Linux isn't a user-friendly OS either (vs. OS 3.x).

Amiga OS has potential if modernized.  But it needs a low entry cost to appeal to anyone looking to try it out before making the switch from Windows.

Future versions of Microsoft Office products are going to use XML as the document standard.  This will allow new (or old with a plugin) Amiga apps to interoperate with Office (Word, Excell, Powerpoint) rather easily.  So common desktop applications for 99% of users will be possible.  

Targeting the niche market as a target audience will always leave the platform as a niche machine.  Let the core audience grow FIRST, then release niche products.

GC is a niche machine...blah blah blah...with a 20 million unit installed base...  How many Amiga users do we have?  Again if you have no mouse, no keyboard and no GC, you can have a GC and all the other stuff I mentioned for ~$216 with a $50 used GC at Gamestop.  Heck for $99 you get a new GC with Super Smash Bros. Melee!  That's only one of the greatest games ever made.  has sold something like 3 million copies on the GC before this bundle...and I still don't own it.

[billt]

>Also, I've seen usb keyboard that act as a usb hub. They
>offer usb ports right on the keyboard so I still don't see
>the limitation there.

But ultimately this keyboard/hub combo must plug into a USB host port on the PC. If you don't have a host port to plug this thing into the GameCube, then no one is in charge of things, and the slaves are not being bossed around to actually do anything. Plug a bunch of slaves into the same USB hub, and see how well they communicate with each other. Realize that a hub is not a host of its own, it requires a true host to be involved. Hubs don't have USB stack software or know what a camera or disk-on-key or printer or mouse or keyboard are or how to talk to each different type of device, it just directs traffic.

And if the qoob is only a USB slave, then thre simply may not be any connecting circuitry in the thing allowing the Gamecube to control it. It may only have some control logic to flash the ROM and nothing more. That's not enough to let your keyboard boss around the gamecube's currently running user interface. Have you asked the manufacturers of qoob if it has host capability so Linux can use USB peripherals?


>with a 20 million unit installed base

How many of these have your qoob and other gizmos? Of those, how many are willing to pay for OS4? Of the non-qoob Gamecube owners, how many are willing to buy all the extra hardware and also pay for OS4? Is the total number of can and willing to pay for OS4 enough to justify the time and effort required to make OS4 run on Gamecube? I've not seen a compelling argument that there is.

Finally, is Nintendo interested in such a thing? If yes, it'd be happening already. If no, then it's effectively prevented from happening, as why would Hyperion want to sell an "illegitimate" piece of software that Nintendo could bankrupt them over?


You idea could be fun for some of us as users, but I'm just trying to be realistic, considering the business environment involved.