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AuthorTopic: New (?) Mini mac pics  (Read 5469 times)

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Offline minator

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2005, 01:43:40 AM »
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My point is, you can get a much nicer "value" pc at that price.


You can probably get a faster PC if you build it yourself but other big brands just offer Celerons sometimes at *higher* prices.  Some of the PCs I looked at were actually lower specced.

The PCs had graphics so exciting they completely failed to list them (i.e. probably built-in Intel stuff which make even low end ATI or Nvidia kit look like stellar performers).

However the Mac includes OS X and iLife 05.  Adding a software bundle of that grade to the PC will put it's price well above the Mac.  It's not a high end machine but it's very good for it's price, even compared to PCs.

--

As for expandability, generally in the past you needed expandability to add things like audio, video, network cards etc.  This is all built in now so unless you have some particular need for a special device you'll find USB or Firewire mean it's expandable enough for most people's needs.

--

What I find quite amazing is that this machine is priced *below* what the A500 was at at the height of it's popularity.
 

Offline graffias79

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Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2005, 01:50:45 AM »
I feel the lack of an audio input port (mic or line level) is annoying, but I would even consider a mac to fool around on at this price.  To remedy the situation of no audio in, you could use one of these: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic/

I have used them before and if I remember right they are only about $35.  Very nice audio capture capabilities.

-Jamie
 

Offline Acill

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2005, 01:56:18 AM »
All of you bashing this as low end and the video not being up to speed need to keep in mind that its not meant to be a game machine, its a entry level, low cost Mac intended for users that want to move music to and from the ipod, surf the net, send email and work on some basic things. It can do some nice games. I have a slower iBook with the same 9200 chip in it. Its got 1.25GB of RAM sure, but I can run Unreal 2004 on it just fine. This will be a great machine for those wanting to try a Mac at a low price entry point.

Video with Steve Jobs showing the new Mac mni HERE
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  • Guest
Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2005, 02:07:06 AM »
Like I said, I'm not putting it down at all, I'm just trying to figure out how to buy one.
 

Offline DonnyEMU

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2005, 02:10:36 AM »
Is it bashing to point out performance issues, especially when  you have advertising on apple.com saying the exact opposite (showing Pixar game footage?).. I think it's cute and I am not saying if you like it you shouldn't go out and buy it.

I am just saying it's not an exciting performer compared to spending $500 to $600 on another platform (and you would get a keyboard/mouse and a display) there..

Something you could set the record straight for me on is just how much RAM does OS X like to have so the OS isn't paging to the hard drive all of the time..

Now if the new wireless iMac was $600 with screen I'd be buying one tomorrow..


PS And you don't think people will use it for games?
======================================
Don Burnett Developer
http://blog.donburnett.com
don@donburnett.com
======================================
 

Offline DonnyEMU

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2005, 02:18:40 AM »
Mini ITX motherboard



Mac Mini motherboard..




Nearly the same dimensions nearly the same cpu speed, one intel one G4..

======================================
Don Burnett Developer
http://blog.donburnett.com
don@donburnett.com
======================================
 

Offline dslcc

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2005, 02:28:17 AM »
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I think the bigger thing will be that it pretty much squashes any idea that either Genesi or AI/KMOS ever had about building some mystical PPC motherboard to run Linux on. Why would anyone (other than a system integrator like Tivo) buy a $700 motherboard when they can just buy a mini-mac and put the guts in their own case for $500 (probably much less in qty, or later as the hype settles).


Agreed. :) The mac will run out of the box linux distros that are not even yet supported for the A1/Pegasos. On my current mac I've run Yellow Dog 3 and 4, Gentoo 2004, Debian Woody and Sarge, Mandrake and SUSE. Now for $499 there is a computer that already runs all of them right out of the box. The bundled OS and software are worth most of the price of the computer.
 :-)
:-o...
 

Offline dslcc

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2005, 02:31:02 AM »
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I agree with you. The smartest thing they could ever do is just SELL OS/4 to Mac users.. Even mini-mac users..


What are the advantages of AOS/4 over OSX? Why would a mac user want that? Would it require a ROM firmware flash? Not my mac!  :-D
:-o...
 

Offline AmiGR

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2005, 02:35:13 AM »
Eh, all the distros you mentioned are available on the Pegasos... It's officially supported by all of them but two, mandrake and suse. Suse dropped the PPC port.
- AMiGR

Evil, biased mod from hell.
 

Offline dslcc

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2005, 02:45:08 AM »
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t's officially supported by all of them but two, mandrake and suse. Suse dropped the PPC port.


Exactly my point - all but two. For $499 you can get all of them supported. Not bad. There are others - OpenBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, OSX, FreeBSD.

I don't want to discredit the Peggy's geek factor...I have a Peggy and I like it and I know what it will do and there are things coming that will make it even better - but - if I was to spend $600 on another PPC platform, this time around it'd be a Mini Mac. Now all that will need to happen is mass production of Pegs or A1's at a price of about $400 or so in order to compete.
:-o...
 

Offline adolescent

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2005, 02:59:34 AM »
Quote

Wayne wrote:
Like I said, I'm not putting it down at all, I'm just trying to figure out how to buy one.


Just click the "Buy Now" button.   :lol:  I'm in the same boat.  I have to convince my wife that the computer I bought in November was "last year".  I don't think it will work.  Anyone want to buy a CSMK2?
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2005, 03:28:38 AM »
Well, it sure is tiny...

And, unlike the old G4 cube, they have the price-point right.  Unfortunatly, that appears to be the only problem from the G4 cube that they addressed.  It's still a small non-expandable motherboard wedged into a case that looks like it may be a ventilation nightmare.  Also, those darn costly and jam-happy slot load DVD drives...

I had read on one of the rumor sites it might have some TV/PVR capabilities.  Those would have been useful.  I could probably justify replacing my old series 1 TiVo with something newer easier than I could justify purchasing yet another novelty PC, even if it is quite a reasonable price and performance.
 

Offline JoannaK

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2005, 03:49:48 AM »
Quote

Wayne wrote:
Donny,

Keep in mind that at the current time, the Mac (ttbomk) doesn't really have any games or applications which would substantially stress a 9200.  Not my choice of video either, but I understand why it was chosen.

If you need more than a 9200 video card will offer, you really wouldn't be looking at a $499 mac in the first place.

Wayne


Yep..

For Average gamer.. Getting both Ps2 and Xbox would be cheaper and even left money for purchasing good games on them.. And for those Hyper-high end gamers? Mac? G4? with Radeon9200..   :-D  :-D

But.. IMHO this one looks really good as a First-time Mac .. I've been looking alternativies for windowse years.. (been using Linuxes,Os/2,BeOs,Mos etc) and this one definitely looks like nice offer to get closer look of Mac OsX...

Secondly.. Fisrt time in years: This on looks about the right machine I could recommend for my parents (both over 65) who never had any computer on their own. Compact, nice looking, had plenty of usefull SW bundled in with (allmost) bulletproof OS.
 

Offline Floid

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2005, 05:30:23 AM »
I could say a lot, but it's all fairly obvious, and will go back and forth for hours.  One interesting theory nobody's mentioned is that the warranty is void if you crack it to expand the RAM, unlike other models -- if so, remember to include the appropriate 'tax' up-front.

There's only one thing that's really been overlooked:

Wayne wrote:
Quote
looks like EVERYONE was right about the price.


...Don't forget, that's before the student discount.  Which, whether you're groaning or cheering or just kind of surprised they saw another almost-sensible product to fruition, leaves them in a rather comfortable place.
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: New (?) Mini mac pics
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2005, 05:49:14 AM »
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Wayne:  If Hyperion or the MorphOS guys want to survive, they'd better get on board..

*Quietly seethes*

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Wayne:  If you need more than a 9200 video card will offer, you really wouldn't be looking at a $499 mac in the first place.

Yeah, it's designed for day-to-day stuff.  What part of "budget" don't people get?

I still think it's dumb that the machine doesn't come with a keyboard and mouse.  PC keyboards are not identical to Mac keyboards, so most people will probably buy an Apple keyboard, anyway.  I'm sure Apple plans on that.

Heh.  I remember when the official Apple Desktop Mouse and keyboards were $80 each.  :-)

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DonnyEMU:   As much as I like the fact that Apple is yet again tempting into the low-end market, my point is there is a certain level of graphics standard that most current even value pc's keep to functionality.  My point is, you can get a much nicer "value" pc at that price..

Yeah, but still not as small.  It's always tough to make a GPU choice, too, as it has to be soldered on the board and offering alternate, more powerful choices is difficult.

Still, Apple is infamous for underpowered graphics and charging WAY too much for GPU upgrades.  I remember when the Geforce3 first came out.  The PC version was just under $300, but Apple was chargine $350 *extra*, which means on top of the built-in graphics that came with the machine (much like how auto manufacturers sell automatic transmissions).  Total cost?  Way too freakin' much.

Wayne is right.  Apple is counting on people buying this and buying more Macs later.  That's the whole principle of proprietary hardware:  don't upgrade... replace the whole damn machine.  That's why I really dispise Macs.  Even the high-end tower computers can't be upgraded much or have the motherboards replaced.

With a trap-door and a PC-Card slot, even the A1200 is more expandable than the iMac.  That's progress.

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Wayne:  Why would anyone (other than a system integrator like Tivo) buy a $700 motherboard when they can just buy a mini-mac and put the guts in their own case for $500 (probably much less in qty, or later as the hype settles).

This is the very reason I was mad when the AmigaOne was announced.  People think the only way to sell software is bundled with proprietary hardware, or retail.  Selling pre-built systems using off-the-shelf components is how all low-volume equipment resellers function.  Why can't Amiga do that, too?  The AmigaOne Micro is a real dog compared to this Mac Mini, and not even as small.

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DonnyEMU:  The smartest thing they could ever do is just SELL OS/4 to Mac users.. Even mini-mac users..

Why do people keep suggesting this?  Apple wouldn't cooperate in the slightest.  Linux gets a chance because Apple would reap hell for stifling open-source developers (on which even Apple depends), but commercial companies like Amiga would be in for trouble.  Forget it.

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HopperJF:  If that is the price of hope for a more diverse computer industry then it is ok with me for I am sick of it being nearly 100% x86/Windows.

Do you believe the reason why that is so is because of Microsoft's anti-monopolization tactics, or the fact practically the whole industry is too stupid to make something better than Windows and MacOS?  Given that Linux runs more than half the Internet but has less than 1% desktop share, I vote for that latter.

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minator:  You can probably get a faster PC if you build it yourself but other big brands just offer Celerons sometimes at *higher* prices. Some of the PCs I looked at were actually lower specced.

Thank you.  What people fail to remember about cheap PCs is that you build them yourself.  You don't get the convenience of a prebuilt machine, a warantee, an OS, a software bundle, tech support, etc.

I build machines myself and think that's the best way to go, so Macs are not for me.  But for a pre-built system that someone isn't going to upgrade every year, Apple is getting much better and more competitive than they used to be.

I still wish they were more upgradable, though.  iMacs should come with at LEAST one expansion slot.

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minator:  The PCs had graphics so exciting they completely failed to list them (i.e. probably built-in Intel stuff which make even low end ATI or Nvidia kit look like stellar performers).

That annoys you too, huh?  They never tell you what chipset the machine uses, or what graphics card.  "ATI 32 Megabyte" is not exactly a good indicator, other than it probably sucks.

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minator:  What I find quite amazing is that this machine is priced *below* what the A500 was at at the height of it's popularity.

True, but the Amiga came with a keyboard and mouse, and didn't need a seperate box to plug into a TV.  I tried to get a price for the TV box, but Apple didn't have it listed in the store.  :-)

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DonnyEMU:  PS And you don't think people will use it for games?

To be perfectly honest, I expect people will spend a lot of time playing on the web with Flash and Java games.  I repair other peoples' computers on a regular basis, and very, very few people actually have any serious 3D games on their machines -- they have lots of IE plugins, weather tickers, and other little bits of junk, instead.  Weird.

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dslcc:  What are the advantages of AOS/4 over OSX? Why would a mac user want that?

Good point.  People buy Macs to run MacOS.  So much for the "BeOS died because Microsoft controls the bootloader" theory.

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Ilwrath:  It's still a small non-expandable motherboard wedged into a case that looks like it may be a ventilation nightmare

Yeah, just like all the PlayStations with choppy video problems.  The PPC is cool but not THAT cool.  I recall Apple had huge problems with Cubes overheating because the hard drive was too close to the CPU/GPU or something.  Even a 1000 RPM fan would be completely silent.

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Floid:  Don't forget, that's before the student discount.

Well, lots of companies offer K12 discounts, too.