Native Amiga Video and TV Cards

[JaXanim]

@Karlos

I've tried the setup you describe, but when I start LightWave, it automatically outputs an native mode and my Voodoo/SVGA screen switches off. Even with the TV system running, there's nothing on the monitor.

The only way I can see the LightWave gui is on a 15KHz monitor attached to the A1200 video port. It's Hi-Res Interlaced and impossible to work with.

If I change screen back to the Voodoo one (LeftAmiga+M), there's nothing on the TV screen and the 15KHz screen switches off at the same time.

As commented above, how does the Amiga generate two different screenmodes at the same time? Or does it? I suppose the composite video output isn't a screenmode as such, but simply a separate additional output? How do I get that onto Voodoo when LightWave switches it off? I'm confused by the whole thing!

However, you've probably helped by involving the PC in all this. I can fit the TV card in the PC and direct the Amiga native video to the Composite In connector. I can see how that should work fine. Just means having both machines on together.

Cheers,

JaX

[Ilwrath]

As commented above, how does the Amiga generate two different screenmodes at the same time? Or does it? I suppose the composite video output isn't a screenmode as such, but simply a separate additional output? How do I get that onto Voodoo when LightWave switches it off? I'm confused by the whole thing!

Even though you'd only be using one monitor, you'd need to set it up as a two-monitor system would be.  That way, the videocard (Picasso96) screen won't keep being shut off when you flip back to an Amiga screen, and vice-versa.  I'm not sure how you do that with Picasso.  In CGX, it's a ENV variable.

[lorddef]

aha, Ilwrath reveals all. I'm using p96 on a similar setup so I might have a play about see how far I get.

[JaXanim]

@lorddef
@Ilwrath

Tantalizingly close eh? But I still don't savvy it, so if you figure out how to set up this ENV variable(), please let us know, in detail, in simple speak too.

In the meantime, I've managed to get the LightWave gui into my PC/TV system using the Composite connectors as indicated in my last post.

If that's as close as I can get, OK. It's not ideal, but better than where I was.

I'd really like to know how to do it with one Amiga and one monitor.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

Hmm,

The Elbox website has the following info in an old press release on their Mediator PCI range:

  "Software for TV cards in Mediator enables a number of other additional functions, which the TV card may perform. For example: managing the radio tuner integrated with the card or using the TV card as a scandoubler / flickerfixer for displaying the AGA-generated image in the PCI graphic card screen."

So it seems the Amiga can generate its native video and provide concurrent Voodoo graphics.

So how's it done?

JaX

[Karlos]

JaXanim wrote:

So it seems the Amiga can generate its native video and provide concurrent Voodoo graphics.

Indeed it can. I am sure that it's a configuration issue somewhere. As already mentioned, under CGX simply tweaking some env vars allows both AGA and RTG screens to run concurrently; I used to do this when I had a 15kHz monitor alongside my main one. I'm sure P96 allows the same.

[patrik]

@JaxAnim:

I got two questions:

1. When saying that LightWave3D can output to "Picasso video", do you mean that it can make use of the RTG system (vilintuisup.library) that shipped with the Picasso2 graphic cards?

2. What happens if you just try to promote the LightWave3D screen to a RTG screenmode using NewMode or ModePro?


/Patrik

[X-ray]

@ Karlos

Hmmmm, this is something I didn't know the Miggy could do. What I want to know is this: if Jax gets that Lightwave screen running as a Mediator/TV window, is that screen going to be able to take input, or does the active screen still have to be the 15kHz one?
I'm probably not explaining myself clearly, but hopefully you know what I mean.

[Framiga]

Hi patrik.

yes LW Picasso2 mode uses vilintuisup.library directly.

Here with LW3.5 and NewMode, i've set LW but its about a nightmare.

You have to set IIRC 4 different promotion (and in the right order).

More easy to do it that explain :-(


EDIT- IIRC the Picasso2 its only for the Preview screen.

[Ilwrath]

Hmmmm, this is something I didn't know the Miggy could do. What I want to know is this: if Jax gets that Lightwave screen running as a Mediator/TV window, is that screen going to be able to take input, or does the active screen still have to be the 15kHz one?

No, the active screen is the only screen on a multi-monitor setup that can take input.  So, he'll still have to RAmiga-M to make the AGA screen active in order to actually be able to "touch" anything in the AGA box.  Then, he'll have to RAmiga-M again to get his pointer back to the P96 screen, even though both will be visible at all times...  

Could be a bit confusing until you get the hang of it.

Personally, I agree with Patrik, and I said it before.  Just use a ModePro or NewMode program to forcibly push the Lightwave screen to 30khz and be done with it.  Much easier, and much better picture quality.  I'm just providing the 2 monitor info as it's an interesting idea for other things.

[JaXanim]

@patrik

Re. the vilintuisup.library. I'm not into the technical details, but from what others have said, it seems so. LightWave was written around the Picasso RTG system and supports it natively.

I have looked at mode promotion and it's easy to do with ModePro, but things go bad when you begin the rendering process. The progress screen is messed up and shifted vertically so nothing's visible. I understand this can be solved but I don't know how to do it. (See Framiga's post above).

I also had frequent crashes when rendering under that condition. The Modeler interface can be promoted to several high resolution screenmodes using a tool supplied with the LightWave 3.5 package. This works with all later Amiga versions. The basic problem is with the Layout interface and the Render progress screen.

When I used the PicassoIV, everything was superb. I then decided to fit a MediatorZ4 bus to run PCI stuff and added a Voodoo5 for everything but LightWave. Unfortunately, my system won't run with both the PIV and Voodoo fitted. So the best option appeared to be keep the Voodoo and find some sort of workaround for LightWave.

I fitted a TV card cos I'd been told it could be used as a SD/FF for LightWave. This got me to here, without that final clue to using it. Others here know how, and several of us are waiting details.

I'll probably go back to Elbox and ask them how to do it.

Cheers,

JaX

[patrik]

@Framiga:

Btw, doesn't Picasso96 emulate vilintuisup.library?

Regarding the promotion - you could always start the NewMode preferences, delete all promotion-objects except the four LightWave3D ones and press Use which will save those settings only to ENV:NewMode.config. Then archive that file, put it on a public server, and post a link so JaxAnim can download it.



Btw2, what screenmode are you running LightWave3D in now?


/Patrik

[JaXanim]

@patrik

I haven't been able to run LightWave properly for months. Very frustrating! I can manage very simple stuff using a 15KHz monitor for setting up in Layout, then rendering and sending the output to the Voodoo monitor. It's a bit tedious and not good on the eyes.

It will be easier to run Layout and Modeler in a TV frame on my PC. The Amiga's mouse pointer appears on the PC monitor of course, but that's OK. The need to keep the Amiga in its native mode to keep the mouse active is not a problem for most people running LightWave. They'll be too occupied with that to need a different mode on the Amiga.

The bottom line is to do all this on the Amiga and one SVGA monitor. I feel sure this is going to be fairly straight forward once I know how.

Cheers,

JaX

[PaSha]

The bottom line is to do all this on the Amiga and one SVGA monitor. I feel sure this is going to be fairly straight forward once I know how.
Cheers,

JaX

A somewhat different approach, and a good reason to invest in a new LCD monitor:
Buy a LCD monitor with a composite input on it, or perhaps a full TV/monitor combo. I've got a 17" widescreen LCD displaying the CVPPC output as 1280x768 WXGA, and a RGB SCART cable to display AGA modes. Works perfectly, it's even got PiP

IIRC there are/were also CRT monitors with Composite/S-video inputs and TV-tuners on the market.

-Paul

[Framiga]

Patrik

yes i could but ATM i'm on CGX.

Anyway the problem is the exact order you will promote the 4 screens.

Its a job of USE for one SAVE for another and so on.

With NewMode (don't know with ModePro) you can promote an app with:

Its TASK name > LIGHTWAVE.FP

or with its SCREEN name

or with its resolution data (don't know in english).

Actually the screens are 3 for LW and 1 for the Modeler that MUST have the same resolution-depth.

ie 800x600 8bit for both. (the Modeler configured with its own cfg also)

The worst problem is the Preview screen that if bad configured, crash the system.

Tomorrow, i'll take a look to my old P96 backup.

[Framiga]

so try this (NewMode 3.9):

1-LIGHTWAVE.FP> promote=NO options=ScreenName (LW Render Feedback) CHECKED

2-LIGHTWAVE.FP> promote=YES options=ScreenName (LW Render status<<) 640x480 8bit

3-LIGHTWAVE.FP> promote=YES options=Program Name (LIGHTWAVE.FP) 800x600 depth: same of modeler

4- Modeler> 800x600 depth= same of Layout

Prepare yourself, to a loooong series of crashes :-)

PS- Layout Render Display = 8 bit HAM