Would it be possible to emulate NeoGeo AES on 68k Amiga

[CU_AMiGA]

Hi

Was wondering whether it would be possible to emulate NeoGeo AES through:

Hardware emulation of 68000
Using the Z80a source code from the AmiMSX Emulator
Using HAM8 mode for the NeoGeo graphics

Would this be possible (at usable speed). Or am i barking up the wrong tree.

Regards,

[leirbag28]

@CU-Amiga

People will probably tell you "NO" "Impossible"  but I believe anything is possible............if its done through Hardware of some sort?  then Yes!  Mind you I know squat about programming :-)

I even believe you can use FireWire on a classic 68020 Amiga...............its quite simple really.........though the Amiga doesnt have the speed, the hardware itself can have a buffer thats fast and can capture a certain amount of Video in its own RAM or whatever your transfering...then slowly pass it to the Amiga via Parrallel port or whatever............Like the VLAB or a particular Amiga Framgrabber does.  

Amiga Makes It Posible!!!

[Hyperspeed]

NeoGeo ROMs are massive so the first thing you'd need is a lot of
memory.

Then there's the issue of the joysticks - they were brilliant and
playing Fatal Fury on the Cheetah Bug wouldn't be quite so hardcore.

:-D :-D

I tried Basebal 2020 on MAME and it was seriously bad. Maybe PowerPC
can do it reasonably (I saw Art of Fighting on a P166 MMX once at full
speed).

We can't even get full speed on '060 AmiGenerator and the NeoGeo had
sprite-scaling/rotation, more colours and much more/bigger sprites.

However, it makes you wonder why an '060 can't emulate an '00 with 1:1
like Shapeshifter. If the custom chips of the AES could be hardware
assisted like the MAS Player...

:-)

Maybe a home brewed PCMCIA slot adaptor could be made for the AES
memory cards.

;-)

[Karlos]

CU_AMiGA wrote:
Hi

Was wondering whether it would be possible to emulate NeoGeo AES through:

Hardware emulation of 68000
Using the Z80a source code from the AmiMSX Emulator
Using HAM8 mode for the NeoGeo graphics

Would this be possible (at usable speed). Or am i barking up the wrong tree.

Regards,

Depending on how the 68000 / Z80 interact its probably easier to emulate both in software (yes, even the 680x0).

Hardware emulation of the 68000 (assuming you mean "run 68K code directly on the 680x0) might be problematic if certian instructions are used (eg TAS). You'd also almost certianly need to use the MMU to fake the address space of the hardware you are emulating.

HAM8 for graphics is always going to be a pain in the backside. RGB->HAM8 encoding is not a trivial process and would eat a lot of CPU. Algorithms do exist, eg RGB15 -> HAM8 c2p; but to be useable you are talking about 68040+

On a good 68060, however, a well programmed emulation might function at workable speed.

A PPC/RTG version might just be a bit more useful, however.

[Hyperspeed]

I remember Alien Vs Predator on Atari Jaguar used a HAM mode and the
framerate wasn't too smoothe to say the least. The Jag used a 68000
but the custom chips were each about '040 25Mhz power.

The NeoGeo may have a 4,096 colour palette but I think it's
limited to 256 colours at any one time - so a standard NTSC:Lo Res
mode would be adequate as long as it's AGA.

I'd much prefer it if we had a decent Megadrive (/Genesis) emulator.
It's so much more realistic to emulate and the games were far better.
Give me Sonic and Streets of Rage over Metal Slug and Art of Fighting
any day!


:-D :-D :-D

[CU_AMiGA]

Hyperspeed wrote:
NeoGeo ROMs are massive so the first thing you'd need is a lot of
memory.

Then there's the issue of the joysticks - they were brilliant and
playing Fatal Fury on the Cheetah Bug wouldn't be quite so hardcore.

:-D :-D

I tried Basebal 2020 on MAME and it was seriously bad. Maybe PowerPC
can do it reasonably (I saw Art of Fighting on a P166 MMX once at full
speed).

We can't even get full speed on '060 AmiGenerator and the NeoGeo had
sprite-scaling/rotation, more colours and much more/bigger sprites.

However, it makes you wonder why an '060 can't emulate an '00 with 1:1
like Shapeshifter. If the custom chips of the AES could be hardware
assisted like the MAS Player...

:-)

Maybe a home brewed PCMCIA slot adaptor could be made for the AES
memory cards.

;-)

Yeah. I forgot a lot of mememory is needed! :0) I have 64meg, which is just enough for them smaller games. Maybe the HD can be used as (virtual memory), albeit, this would also slow things down.

AmiGenerator used software emulation for the 68000, i was looking at the hardare emualtion side of things (although that is far too technical for me!).

If this was emualted like Shapshifter, i just know NeoGeo and MegaDrive emulation is possible! :-)

Regards,

[Karlos]

CU_AMiGA wrote:

If this was emualted like Shapshifter, i just know NeoGeo and MegaDrive emulation is possible! :-)

Don't hold your breath there. Shapeshifter works because the emulated mac has very little custom hardware to worry about (and what there is is generally accesed through API's in the macos, hence very easy to replace) and also doesn't depend on any specific 680x0 being present in the emulated machine.

For consoles, especially of this vintage, it's often the case that the overall system is much more complex. You have a lot of custom hardware to emulate (usually without the benefit of any insulating APIs provided by the console's firmware/kernel) and even then, software may depend on exact timing of the components too which you are simply not going to get on your emulation.

As crazy as it may sound, it's often simpler to emulate the lot in software than it is to attempt to use native hardware for a particular task.

[CU_AMiGA]

Whether its harder or not, would the bottom line be the hardware emulation is better to use than software emulation?

Regards,

[bloodline]

CU_AMiGA wrote:
Whether its harder or not, would the bottom line be the hardware emulation is better to use than software emulation?

Regards,

As Karlos has said, there are so many issues (notably Timing and Address space), that this sort of thing can only realistically be done in software.

And never for one second entertain the idea of using any HAM mode for a game, or bad things will happen to you! :nervous:

[CU_AMiGA]

@bloodhound

NO! Oh well, luckily i have brought Metal Slug for NeoGeo AES. :-)

I though HAM was pretty good. It seems okay in when using the HAM8 drivers in Shapeshifter?

Regards,

[bloodline]

CU_AMiGA wrote:
@bloodhound

NO! Oh well, luckily i have brought Metal Slug for NeoGeo AES. :-)

I though HAM was pretty good. It seems okay in when using the HAM8 drivers in Shapeshifter?

Regards,

I'm sure the HAM8 drivers do work okay, but HAM is jsut not suited to fast paced graphics, oh how I would have loved a chunky mode in AGA... :boohoo:

[CU_AMiGA]

Okay so draw the line for me:

Wooult it be possible to do 68000 hardware emulation, or are you saying its IMPOSSIBLE?!

[Trev]

@bloodline

. . . how I would have loved a chunky mode in AGA.

Time for a Graffiti, perhaps?

...

And doesn't Generator use a modified version of UAE's JIT compiler? I can't imagine that being all that fast on a 68000. (Generator using SDL under Windows on a Pentium 4, on the other hand. . . .)

Trev

[Karlos]

CU_AMiGA wrote:
Okay so draw the line for me:

Wooult it be possible to do 68000 hardware emulation, or are you saying its IMPOSSIBLE?!

Of course it is possible. The problem is it is likely to be so complex and awkward to "get right" when considering all other factors that it is effectively impossible. Even if it were accomplished, the chance of it being any faster (considering all the other bottlenecks) are almost nill and there are likely to be far more incompatibilities with games than a pure  software emulation.

[bloodline]

Trev wrote:
@bloodline

. . . how I would have loved a chunky mode in AGA.

Time for a Graffiti, perhaps?

...

And doesn't Generator use a modified version of UAE's JIT compiler? I can't imagine that being all that fast on a 68000. (Generator using SDL under Windows on a Pentium 4, on the other hand. . . .)

Trev

No, I mean a real Chunky mode :-D