nuther cd drive problem

[Will-i-am]

On my A4000T, currently using the Cyberstorm PPC card, I installed an off-brand CD drive "Justlink" Don't know who makes it, but I used it to install the 3.9 OS...twice now. Thing is, I wanted to install 3.9 on the A4KD as well. I went out and bought a used CD/RW drive for $9, and it turned out to have moving parts where most drives wouldn't (rattle, rattle) so I took the drive out of the tower and used it to install 3.9 into the desktop. Now I'm getting cranky about having to leave all my cases open all the time while I swap parts. I bought a new Sony CD/RW drive with a short case, which should fit into the desktop just fine, leaving me the longer older drive for the tower. (YAY) Except... the long cased drive will work on the desktop and the tower and the short one will only work on the tower. I really don't want an inch of drive sticking out of the desktop. Both are EIDE, both set to "slave". Any ideas? I have considered re-installing IDEFix97 but I thought I would ask first. By any chance is there a problem depending on which connector in the ribbon is attached to which drive? I'm using a cable attached to the Mobo of the tower, and like I say, the short drive works fine there but in the desktop I only have the cable which shares the floppy drive. I understand that on the tower manual it says the df0: needs to be attached to the middle connector but says nothing about restrictions on the CD drives as far as I can find.

[Thomas]

You are joking ?! An IDE drive will never work on the floppy cable. Apart from that it does not even fit.

The A4000D has an IDE and a floppy controller. You need a floppy cable to connect the floppy drive to the floppy controller and an IDE cable to connect the CD-ROM drive to the IDE controller.

With the IDEfix software installed, any IDE CD-ROM drive should work on the IDE controller.

Bye,
Thomas

[Will-i-am]

Not Joking, just tired from arguing with the computer...yeah, the cable on the A4000D to which the CD drive is attached is, in fact, the cable to which the HD is also attached. I don't know why I couldn't see that mistake while I was checking for spelling...but what the heck. You get the idea. However, the point of the problem is that both drives work on the tower and only the long cased drive works on the desktop model. Both claim to be eide....makes sense since both work on the tower. Both are set to "slave". Each computer can get at least one drive to work, but the issue is why the shorter cased drive, the one which would actually fit inside the desktop case, will not run on the desktop? Idefix is not much of an issue, I would have thought, since the longer drive will run when hooked up to the desktop model. The operating system on that machine knows how to make a CD drive work...but not, apparently, if it is in a short case. So aside from the length of the drive, can you think of anything else that might make a difference?

[tomekm]

if you don`t have 4xide adapter, use no idefix. instead use scsi.device from os3.9. it works with cd`s better than atapi.device. try it. i use it without problems for a long time. Don`t forget to use CacheCDFS!

a little q: does the short cd mount in os on your desktopA4000? is it inquired by ie. (SCSI)Mounter? If no, please check your cables, try different ones. If it does, try lowering MaxTransfer. I had a problem and the solution was to lower the MaxTransfer down to 0xFFE0. But that was on A1200...

[Will-i-am]

tomekm wrote:
if you don`t have 4xide adapter, use no idefix. instead use scsi.device from os3.9. it works with cd`s better than atapi.device. try it. i use it without problems for a long time. Don`t forget to use CacheCDFS!

a little q: does the short cd mount in os on your desktopA4000? is it inquired by ie. (SCSI)Mounter? If no, please check your cables, try different ones. If it does, try lowering MaxTransfer. I had a problem and the solution was to lower the MaxTransfer down to 0xFFE0. But that was on A1200...

How do you use scsi.device? Right now the desktop is able to read the longer drive just fine with whatever 3.9 provides. The desktop will not even boot when the short drive is plugged in. Not even with a floppy workbench. The hard drive light goes on for a couple of minutes and then goes out. I tried a warm boot and nothing changes. If I unplug the drive the machine boots up fine and if I plug in the longer cased drive it boots up fine. The only difference is the short case is a Sony CD/RW and the long case is a JustLink CD/Rw, whatever that brand may be. Like I said, they both are jumpered to "slave". I can't figure it out. How do I lower the MaxTransfer? If the machine won't boot with the drive plugged in can I do anything inside the OS before I plug the drive in? Don't forget, the tower boots fine with the short drive plugged in, so the drive itself functions.....

[Thomas]

Please check if the HDD is jumpered correctly (master).

Try to jumper the HDD as slave and the CD-RW as master.

Try to boot from floppy disk with only the CD-RW connected (first as master, and if it does not work, as slave).

If you've got some spare money you could buy a buffered 4way-adapter, connect the HDD to its first channel and the CD-RW to its second channel, both jumpered as master. Now you *need* IDEfix software for the CD-RW, but it might work.

If you've got even more spare money, you could buy a FastATA4000 controller to run the CD-RW. ;-)

Bye,
Thomas

[Doobrey]

@Will-i-am,
 IdeFix is known to cause problems with the scsi.device from OS3.9, that could be part of the problem with the bootup.
 
 There`s 2 ways around this,
 1. Since IDEFix handles drives bigger than 4gb, you could simply stop the updated scsi.device from 3.9 loading by changing the setpatch line in s:startup-sequence to
 SetPatch SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device"

 2. Comment out the IDEFix line from s:user-startup,
 and then find out if there`s a CD Mountfile in Devs:DosDrivers (probably wont be, as IDEFix can automount a CD when it starts up) If there isn`t one there, copy the CD0 + CD0.info from Storage\DosDrivers.
  Open up CD0 in a texteditor, and change the device line to Device=scsi.device, and the unit line to unit=1
 
 

[Will-i-am]

Thomas wrote:

Please check if the HDD is jumpered correctly (master).

Try to jumper the HDD as slave and the CD-RW as master.

Try to boot from floppy disk with only the CD-RW connected (first as master, and if it does not work, as slave).

If you've got some spare money you could buy a buffered 4way-adapter, connect the HDD to its first channel and the CD-RW to its second channel, both jumpered as master. Now you *need* IDEfix software for the CD-RW, but it might work.

If you've got even more spare money, you could buy a FastATA4000 controller to run the CD-RW. ;-)

Bye,
Thomas

did all of the above except the part about spending money on new hardware. I'm not allowed to do that anymore. I've managed to acquire 9 computers, six are Amigas and 3 have Toasters. Until everybody works I need to be satisfied with what I have. None of the jumper jiggling did any good. Whenever the short drive is plugged into the desktop machine it will not boot, even from a floppy. The HD, when plugged in alongside the CD drive, will flash it's light for a few seconds and then it goes out. The CD drive will flash it's light for a brief second and then it goes out.I am considering the idea that backing up this beast may be done on a CD drive borrowed from the tower. That's the primary reason, at this point, to have a CD/RW drive installed. I already have 3.9 installed and when I need the CD working I can just jerk the longer one out of the tower and temporarily use it. Except it doesn't answer the question and that will make me insane.

[tomekm]

i actually see no need to use idefix if there`s no 4xIDE adpater present on system. So if it`s not needed it should not be used. I used to have atapi.device handling my cd-rom drive, unless i got OS3.5 (and later 3.9), which had updated scsi.device in Rom Update. The scsi.device provided with OS3.5/3.9 works much better than atapi.device and I strongly recommend using it. To check which version of scsi.device you have please write in shell: "version scsi.device". If it`s higher than 40.xx it is the new one. This one is being loaded by the SetPatch command, during cold boot. Then is stays resident in memory util powerdown or flush.

Check jumper setting for your hdd, or put your A4000T hdd in and then try to boot A4kD. Remember that some drives (Such as Caviars) have different settings for being Master drives and Single drive only modes. AFAIR the Caviars without any jumper should behave as Single, and in this mode you may not be able to boot your system with slave device present.

[tomekm]

Will-i-am wrote:

How do you use scsi.device? Right now the desktop is able to read the longer drive just fine with whatever 3.9 provides. The desktop will not even boot when the short drive is plugged in. Not even with a floppy workbench. The hard drive light goes on for a couple of minutes and then goes out. I tried a warm boot and nothing changes. If I unplug the drive the machine boots up fine and if I plug in the longer cased drive it boots up fine. The only difference is the short case is a Sony CD/RW and the long case is a JustLink CD/Rw, whatever that brand may be. Like I said, they both are jumpered to "slave". I can't figure it out. How do I lower the MaxTransfer? If the machine won't boot with the drive plugged in can I do anything inside the OS before I plug the drive in? Don't forget, the tower boots fine with the short drive plugged in, so the drive itself functions.....

scsi.device is to be defined in moutlist. loog to DEVS:DOSDrivers. there`s file which name matcher device name of your CD-ROM. Open this file with text editor. There are strings such as: device=...., unit=... and maxtransfer=.... Just change the maxtransfer value. If you have device=atapi.device, change it to device=scsi.device, then remove IDEFix from startup-sequence.
 How`d you say the ami doesn`t boot even with floppy? Does it display boot screen? Does it load anything from the floppy? And once again: try with your A4000T harddrive.

[Will-i-am]

Once I had 3.9 on the desktop model I commented out the line relating to Idefix. Then I happened to find the shorter Sony CD drive at Compusa and bought it, figuring it would allow me to back up the HD to CD and still have the case closed. When I plugged it in I discovered the machine would not boot. I tried booting from a 3.1 workbench and a 3.0 workbench. Both times the HD light goes on briefly and then goes out. The Sony  CD drive is definately set to "slave", and the HD is set to "master" although I have tried reversing those settings and cable select as well. Since the machine will not boot when the drive is attached I cannot get the name of the device on HDTools. Like I said, the Tower model is also running 3.9 and it boots fine with the Sony drive attached, although it is showing some other curious problems which might be caused by the Cyberstorm. The desktop model has a GVP '040 card installed. Since the desktop model will boot just fine with the longer cased drive attached I can't see why it should have problems with a different model drive which works fine on the tower.  :-? At this point I've tried so many combinations of cables, drives and OS that I can't be sure what I haven't tried. If the drive failed in both machines it would make sense. If both machines had different operating systems it would make sense. The primary differences between the two computers is the brand name of the HD, which obviously shouldn't be a factor, and the CPU, which also shouldn't be a factor. The need to make this work is not great at this point. Swapping drives is inconvenient, but not impossible. It's the lack of a clear approach that makes me crazy! Unless I'm overlooking some really simple point like consistantly plugging in the smaller drive incorrectly...which is not impossible... I may just throw in the towel and give the shorter drive to the tower and have a tower with two CD drives and a HD.

[tomekm]

The primary differences between the two computers is the brand name of the HD, which obviously shouldn't be a factor, and the CPU, which also shouldn't be a factor.

TRY TO SWAP HDD`S! they sometimes are responsible for similar problems.

[Will-i-am]

tomekm wrote:

The primary differences between the two computers is the brand name of the HD, which obviously shouldn't be a factor, and the CPU, which also shouldn't be a factor.

TRY TO SWAP HDD`S! they sometimes are responsible for similar problems.

Well, actually, once again an obvious thing was not mentioned. (Shouldn't be surprised. There's a class action lawsuit on the manufacturers of Neurontin, which I take for my chronic back pain. Seems it destroys your short term memory.) The tower HD is scsi, the desktop HD is ide, so I can't swap them. That is, I can install the desktop HD into the tower, but we already know the tower can run both CD drives. The issue is getting the desktop to run the short cased CD drive. Am I repeating myself? Crap o dear, I really find this hard to do whilst dosed up on meds which cancel 80% of the pain but force you to have all these little slips of paper around with notes on what people have suggested. No, I can't swap the HDs. dang.

[tomekm]

oh sorry, i just don`t have enough time to read all text, t`m just finding the essentials instead:) So I think I ain`t find that mention. I suppose that (if you didn`t already checked that:) there`s problem between ide hdd and your cd, or your cable is not perfect and the short drive is more sensitive than the longer one... I can`t check now (while i`m writing this) if you already checked if the cd drive works  alone (set as master or slave). if not, then I don`t know if even God knows what`s wrong with your Amiga... oh, again: you say that the led is lit a while and then goes blank, does the system load while it is lit? I mean, if yes, thee may be problems with software. the same with floppys. There may be problems.
Just tell me if your system boots a second or two, or you see rainbow logo on purple screen? or maybe none of both, but a blank screen?

hey, i just found that your psu may be too weak, check with external one (ie. connect short cd to different psu, and start it before amiga).