If only we could port Amiga OS

[adolescent]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
The G3s they made back then were clocked a lot slower and had a lot smaller cache.  A moder PPC750 series processor does quite well.  Also the AmigaOne has an upgradable processor socket so when the 750VX (with Altivec) is released AmigaOne will be waiting for it.  

A good point, but the PPC750 is hardly a new design and has been available in AmigaOne speeds for some time (2000?).  And, yet another "when it's released...".  

If you're referring to the hard drive controller bug:  That can be remedied by adding a hard-drive controller card or wait for the imminent fix that Eyetech is working on.

So, instead of standing behind their product and fixing a well known bug the end user is responsible for buying additional hardware, or just wait some more and hope they eventually fix it.  It's been 2 over years already.    

If you're referring to the MicroA1 having low specs compared to a full-sized desktop then why don't you look at Via's Epia series mini-itx motherboards.  You just can't fit much onto a mini-itx board nowadays.  

I've priced the EPIA motherboards and they are in general hundreds of dollars cheaper (the top of the line EPIA with a decent processor would be about 2/3 the cost of a MicroA1) and are available with modern features like firewire, USB 2.0, faster RAM, faster IDE, etc.

Besides mini-itx motherboards are geared toward the embedded market, not the desktop market.  They use G3 processors becuase they are 8 watt wonders.

Then why is Eyetech marketing them to consumers?  Is this another amazing decision by the Eyetech marketing department?  

[bloodline]

BigBenAussie wrote:

What are you talking about....The Amiga has other strengths going for it... Do I, of all people, need to explain this to you.

You're gonna need to explain it to me :-)

[KimmoK]

@GreggBz

It smells like KMOS plan is to get AOS4 on multiple devices, also mobile PPC devices.

Better support Hyperion to finalize the portable version of AOS (meaning AOS4), rather than do the SAME work all AGAIN.

[KimmoK]

@KennyR

"Define "fine". In 2000 Amiga Format was selling 11,000 copies, and this still wasn't enough to keep it or the Amiga going."

What???

In 2000:
a) Amiga Inc was offering NOTHING for AOS fans, people went for MOS & Linux & etc.
b) Amiga Format is not Amiga, it is a magazine, produced by some bigger publishing company that needed to maximize profits. They made more profit elsewhere. Etc...
c) It kept Amiga going. The proof: AOS4 and MOS

"AmigaONE's price and relative obscurity would be lucky to sell another 1000 items. As a niche it may be surviving (if not flourishing), but it takes more than a four figure user base and a bunch of SDL ports to make a platform."

AmigaOne is not the end of development plan. It was planned to be the stepping stone and R&D platform towards future.

[Argo]

by bloodline on 2004/12/3 3:16:33

Quote:

BigBenAussie wrote:

What are you talking about....The Amiga has other strengths going for it... Do I, of all people, need to explain this to you.

You're gonna need to explain it to me

Make sure you use simple English (small words). :-P

[KimmoK]

@adolescent

"The AmigaOne is a joke."

No more than Peg1 or even Peg2.

AmigaOne is especially good as a hobby (anything can be good as a hobby).

"Eyetech's marketing strategy seems to be to raise prices and lower specs,"

How? mA1c is cheaper than A1XE and others.

And it's good that AOS4 is not tied to Eyetech or MAI.

"all the while not addressing bugs in their current designs."

Eyetech has arranged new revisions of motherboard to address HW bugs, just like Genesi.

(only their guarrantee system sucks) :-(

"Also, holding out for an OS that was promised years ago, and has only recently seen the public light as a test version,"

Now there is a concrete progress and usable and stable version @ the hands of (pioneer)users and developers.

Public version is more of a developer version than BETATESTER version. (betatesting is done internally)

"to run on outdated/overpriced/underperforming hardware is crazy."

Is there a better realistic alternative somewhere ??

"By the time OS4 does get released the majority of people waiting for it will have moved on."

Nothing new since year 2001, right?
I see a lot of people asking for it. (some also on non-amiga forums)

"A G3 probably could have sold in 2000, but it's just been too long."

Depends on the target audience and target use.

There are PPC variants suitable for:
- PDAs and "communicator" phones
- laptops
- desktops
- servers
- supercomputers

Surely mA1i is good if not ideal for a lot of embedded devices (kiosks, players, etc)

But also I would like to see 1.4Ghz G4 option for mA1C.

[bloodline]

Argo wrote:

by bloodline on 2004/12/3 3:16:33

Quote:

BigBenAussie wrote:

What are you talking about....The Amiga has other strengths going for it... Do I, of all people, need to explain this to you.

You're gonna need to explain it to me

Make sure you use simple English (small words). :-P

And don't mention socks... I get easilly distracted :-D

[KimmoK]

@KennyR

"Anyone who wants it can get it and be assured of a free update to the completed version when it's ever released"

Is that really the case? To me it's not 100% clear or sure.
And always OEM version lack something from the "stand alone".

" (if it ever does have an official release), so where is the scary part here that's holding back these thousands of waiting customers from taking the plunge?"

You said one by yourself: perhaps it never matures to official release state

Some people:
- are waiting for bugfixed version. (IIRC, this is the case with people like Hooligan and JoannaK that have shown some interest)
- wait for guarrantee to start to work.
- wait for ATX (or atleast bigger than ITX) motherboard.
- wait for more powerfull CPU.
- wait for second hand (cheaper) boards.
- wait to see it first
- have not heard about it
- want to see final AOS4.0 before they buy anything.
- wait to see wich is better in final release state MOS or AOS
- wait for hell to freeze (smithy)


I wait untill I have more time for my hobby... and that G4 is available again (but "have time" is the main reason, but when suitable model exist I might get one a little bit beforehand)


Other than those... I also doubt 10 000 sold units are reached with Amiga sales of just mA1c. (not counting possible linux version sales to china etc.)

I think a few extra thousand of ITX and microATX desktop sales are possible, if specs remain ~y2000 x86 HW level.
Other niches need to be pursued if more modern HW is out of reach.

[Dan]

Back on the subject:
UAE on Gameboy DS: wasn´t somebody going port UAE to the GP32?
Or rather rewrite? if the 133Mhz GP32 can´t do it then there isn´t any chance for a 66Mhz Gameboy DS?

AROS on Gameboy DS: IF somebody gets linux on it you could make a hosted version. Native isn´t worth the effort.


But why Gameboy DS?
Me, I would get something based on NanoITX instead. 533Mhz 1024MB RAM running WinUAE or native AROS with AROS-UAE. :-D

[SamuraiCrow]

adolescent wrote:

I've priced the EPIA motherboards and they are in general hundreds of dollars cheaper (the top of the line EPIA with a decent processor would be about 2/3 the cost of a MicroA1) and are available with modern features like firewire, USB 2.0, faster RAM, faster IDE, etc.

...smaller processor cache, memory not included, bloated os, ...  :-P BTW The uA1-I model HAS firewire and a faster IDE.

[adolescent]

KimmoK wrote:
"The AmigaOne is a joke."

No more than Peg1 or even Peg2.

AmigaOne is especially good as a hobby (anything can be good as a hobby).

Ok, I'll agree with that.  Maybe I should have said "ALL next generation Amigas are jokes".

How? mA1c is cheaper than A1XE and others.

And it's good that AOS4 is not tied to Eyetech or MAI.

The price difference is negligable true.  But the fact that the "new" system is now using year 2000 specs doesn't make sense.  Computer hardware goes down in price, not up.  The feature set of the micro and lack of expansion is much less than the A1XE, and couple that with having to buy the OS seperately.  The only thing the micro has going for it is it's form factor.

"all the while not addressing bugs in their current designs."

Eyetech has arranged new revisions of motherboard to address HW bugs, just like Genesi.

(only their guarrantee system sucks) :-(

A new revision, or a user funded fix doesn't really help the hundreds of users that have existing boards.  Any real company would have issued a recall, halted production, and offered a real fix.  Eyetech in large have ignored the problem.  If anything, they could at least send out a $20 IDE card to all registered owners to show they have at least an itsy bitsy amount of customer service.  

"Also, holding out for an OS that was promised years ago, and has only recently seen the public light as a test version,"

Now there is a concrete progress and usable and stable version @ the hands of (pioneer)users and developers.

Public version is more of a developer version than BETATESTER version. (betatesting is done internally)

Yes.  I've seen it, but it still doesn't help that there is no release date set.  

"to run on outdated/overpriced/underperforming hardware is crazy."

Is there a better realistic alternative somewhere ??

See "joke" comment above.  

"By the time OS4 does get released the majority of people waiting for it will have moved on."

Nothing new since year 2001, right?
I see a lot of people asking for it. (some also on non-amiga forums)

Are these messages from AmigaOne owners wanting to finally use their computers?  :-)

"A G3 probably could have sold in 2000, but it's just been too long."

Depends on the target audience and target use.

There are PPC variants suitable for:
- PDAs and "communicator" phones
- laptops
- desktops
- servers
- supercomputers

Surely mA1i is good if not ideal for a lot of embedded devices (kiosks, players, etc)

More of the same "coming soon", "when it's released", etc.  And, I don't want a kiosk, I want a computer.  

But also I would like to see 1.4Ghz G4 option for mA1C.

I'd be happy with an XC-G4 at 1.4GHz.  But, again see above.

[adolescent]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
...smaller processor cache

While that's true, cache size is not the only factor in a processors performance.  For instance, you can get a P4 based mini-itx system that will outperform the PPC750FX/GX with half the L2 cache.

memory not included

Bad argument.  Not being forced to buy, and probably later throw away, Eyetech's overpriced 256M SODIMM is a good thing.

bloated os

Full featured OS?  If you don't like Windows, then take your pick from the various Linux distributions.  While they're generally filled with software, its the installers choice.  And, since Eyetech provides this same Linux, you could say that the mA1 has a bloated OS also.

BTW The uA1-I model HAS firewire and a faster IDE.

No CPU upgrade, still no USB2.0.  But, since it hasn't been released, I'll withhold judgement.

[cecilia]

KennyR wrote:

cecilia wrote:
from what I've seen in local user groups, it's coming along just fine.

Define "fine". In 2000 Amiga Format was selling 11,000 copies, and this still wasn't enough to keep it or the Amiga going. AmigaONE's price and relative obscurity would be lucky to sell another 1000 items. As a niche it may be surviving (if not flourishing), but it takes more than a four figure user base and a bunch of SDL ports to make a platform.

I don't give a crap about business.
that is, I'm not running a business.

Fine means: At user meetings I look at people using the OS and it works - and when things don't work I complain and a beta report goes out and it improves.

to me, that's "FINE".

to me, OS4 is a hobby OS. at least for now. and I'm enjoying it. As it matures, it may become something "bigger". but that won't happen without people helping to build it. I'm not one of those nerd fan-boys that thinks dreaming about The Great Overtaking of Amiga on an Unsuspecting World will happen next week. or possibly ever.

I live in the real world. I've worked with people who started their Special Effects company using Amigas, but as time went on they had to include MACs, PC's, Alphas, etc to "keep up".

I've done some of my best work using AfterEffects which is only on MACs and PC's.

That doesn't mean I've forgotten my past or don't still love using AmigaOS.

So, I will continue to enjoy my hobby OS - and even use it for work sometimes! but I'm not chucking out my multiboot Windows2000/linux/WinUAE PC laptop.

But when I can I'll get a micro with OS4.
just 'cause I wanna. and that's OK