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Author Topic: OS4, When ?  (Read 19169 times)

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Offline JoannaK

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #59 from previous page: March 01, 2003, 12:59:45 PM »
Quote

Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.


Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?).  Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2003, 01:39:52 PM »
/JoannaK has just secured another 100 posts to this topic ....

/me has to do his share :


Party on  :-P
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Wilse

Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2003, 02:45:35 PM »
Quote

JoannaK wrote:
Quote

Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.


Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?).  Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.


Where did HJF call Ben Yoris a liar? Furthermore, I was under the impression that Ben said there was no chance of OS4 before the end of the year. Last time I checked we were only two months into the year. So you've lost me as far as proof goes.

So could you please explain what you mean, or are you just talking pish? Hm?

Offline Wilse

Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2003, 02:46:34 PM »
Quote

Kronos wrote:
/JoannaK has just secured another 100 posts to this topic ....

/me has to do his share :


Party on  :-P


:lol:

Offline Kronos

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2003, 02:53:39 PM »
@Wilse
O.k. that didn't work ....

Lets try this:

Dear easter-bunny .....
... nevermind, just tell it Santa !

 :-D  :-D  :-D
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2003, 05:22:41 PM »
Quote

JoannaK wrote:

Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?).  Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.


What Ben Yoris said was that it wouldn't be ready before the end of this year (2003), which was a call that he is not competent enough to make.

Moreover, he was telling stuff from an internal mailing list, even if it was true (which I am denying here).

If it proves to be the truth is going to be obvious only at the end of this year. Even you should recognize that "end of the year" means December, 31st, not March 1st, unless you are using a different calendar.

Ben only said that OS 4 development is slowed down. Your vivid imagination is adding pieces, but that isn't something new, seeing how much FUD you like to spread.

That "lack of talent" was a really uncalled-for insult. I really wonder how low you can get, and you always manage to surprise me in your arrogance. I don't know what problem you have with Ben Hermans, or with Amiga, or with me, but only little brain or high degree of alcoholic intoxication can justify an insult directed at 30+ developer, 70+ beta testers and a similar number of translators that work for very little money, a team that contains the some of the brightest heads in the Amiga developer community.


Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline ksk

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2003, 05:37:52 PM »
@Rogue

The community is fed up with broken promises.
Also AmigaOS4 schedule has failed several times and people are very fed up with that too.

Also I am fed up with lies and tired of waiting. Please be open in the communication towards the community.

Deliver a beta/BETATESTER ASAP rather than forever trying reach perfection on one go...

-KimmoK
 

Offline SlimJim

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2003, 06:09:27 PM »
Quote

JoannaK wrote:
Quote

Rogue wrote:
Please read the interview with Ben on that topic.


Yep.. Hermans finally admitted that your OS4 developemt has striken the rocks and has been there for last 6 months or so (looks like either lack of funds or lack of tallent?).  Essentially everything Ben Yoris said a month earlier has been proven to be truth. IMHO you should publicly apologicie from him for callign him liar.

 
I have no problem with you interpreting Ben's interview in
your own way, as well as allowing Ben Yoris estimate of
"end of the year" to be "proved" right already in march.
It's odd behaviour, yes - but it's your right and if nothing
else you are at least consistent.
 
But do you really have to sow insults with that as well?
 
Reason your posts, Joanna - as we have seen you
could do in the past. You are rapidly turning into (or at
least apperaring as) a bashing troll and I don't think that
was your intention.
.
SlimJim
 

Offline Rogue

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2003, 06:10:45 PM »
Quote

ksk wrote:
@Rogue

The community is fed up with broken promises.
Also AmigaOS4 schedule has failed several times and people are very fed up with that too.


I am fed up with insults, lies, false rumours. Don't pretend that there is only one side that is always to take the blame.

My only promise so far has been that I, like everyone else in the team, am doing my best to get the job done. So far I consider myself, like everyone else in the team, in compliance with that promise.

If you think that this is easy for us, you are completely off the mark. We have to make sure that we can survive, and I'm sorry to say it but I, myself, come first, and the community second. I need to cope with my personal living, and my personal bills. The community is not going to pay them. Until such time, I can only try to do my best, but everything has limits.

Quote

Also I am fed up with lies and tired of waiting. Please be open in the communication towards the community.


Are you implying that I am lying? You know that release dates are estimates. I invite you to look around in the IT business for release dates that have actually been kept.

Quote

Deliver a beta/BETATESTER ASAP rather than forever trying reach perfection on one go...


Just for your info, there is a team of 70 beta testers already. Just because person X or person Y isn't part of it doesn't mean there isn't. We are not going to conduct a public beta test, if that is what you mean, and there will only be a final product. Just because there is a public MorphOS beta version doesn't dictate that we have to do the same. We won't.

As to "trying to reach perfection", we are trying to reach a certain degree of it, because otherwise certain people I know will start bitching again. It will be "oh, this is all they came up after over one year". All of us believe in that project, and when we finally get it out, we will be saying "this is our project, and yes we're proud of it".

I am sorry, I don't make up release dates. And the cold hard fact is that estimating release dates is more of a gamble than anything else, and most certainly so in the Amiga market, a market that is not able to sustain itself at the moment. The result is that we have to look for other sources of income. Yes, this does delay things. No, they never came to a complete halt because there is always at least one of the core team working full time on it.

Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to proclaim that OS 4 will not be out this year. That is something that can only be said on December 31st, not a second earlier.

Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to suggest that there is a bunch of idiots working on the project, like Joanna tried to make it appear.

Most of all it doesn't give certain people the right to suggest that another company would have done better. Chances are that another company would have contracted similar people. mostly because they are the best you can get on the Amiga market.

Now you know what I am fed up with.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline ksk

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2003, 06:59:50 PM »
@Rogue

I did not mean to critisize you personally. I was talking more about the situation that Hyperion is facing.
(other companies, like Eyetech, AmigaInc and Genesi have their own "lack of community trust" issues etc.., of which (IMHO) some are far bigger than yours)
But still.

I work at the IT business myself. I have been in well over 10 huge SW+HW projects of which only one was released absolutely in the schedule (and no service affecting bugs were found by customer).

The beta version of AOS4 for A1 would trigger me in buying A1G4XE HW ASAP.

If there will be no public beta release, is it still possible to become a member of that beta tester team of "AOS4 for A1"?

I personally respect you for that you took AOS4 job even though it means personal sacrifices.

I observe these things as an outsider and I see a lot of things being said that are not very smart PR wise. I know it's hard to be professional with things when there is some groundless bitching, but still...

Anyway, good luck in your immense job task at making the world greatest OS even better.   :-)

br
 -KimmoK
 

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2003, 07:13:37 PM »
Within 6 months or I am selling up and getting a cool iMac
 

Offline createcoms

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2003, 07:33:25 PM »
Good riddens to you 'AmigaOne' peep.

 :quickdraw:
 

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2003, 08:12:00 PM »
@all

Calm down everyone !!

OK, OS 4 is delayed - so what ?

All developers have other priorities too, some personal/financial etc.

The Amiga developers are trying their best - that is ALL I ask :)

I personally need more cash for the A1, so its good for me.

The Amiga I use now is enough for my needs, the development of OS 4 is NOT costing me anything - so why should I complain ?

Back in 2000, we had NO AmigaInc, NO new OS 4 nothing - this situation is much better than that !

Geez, chill out ladies and gents.

You think your life is dependant on OS 4 !!!!

I still remember Petro saying "to restart production of A1200s will cost 100M DM"

Were talking big money here.

C= billion dollar company
Escom billion dollar company
Gateway billion dollar company

ALL DID NOT MAKE IT

yet, AmigaInc,Hyperion & Eyetech -with funds in the thousands (if that) are still around.

I am very suprised they have made it so far - and very pleased they have. :)

From me : do what your doing guys/gals & dont let anyone demotivate your cause :)

its appreciated, and I will  buy it "when its ready" :)

Later, Asymetrix
AKA Asaf

 

Offline alx

Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2003, 08:23:17 PM »
@asymetrix

That entire post applies to me as well.  We've seen the Amiga decline over the last ten years.  Gateway gave up on the "classic" platform completely.  Amiga inc made the decision to restart development - that alone makes me respect them a bit.

As for OS4, you can work out quite a bit about it from what we have.  The kernel works fine.  The OS has been complete enough to give to 70 betatesters.  The only remaining issue is emulation.

I'd prefer Hyperion to update us more, but if they have taken the decision not to - probably a good idea, considering how whatever they say can get torn to pieces.

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2003, 08:28:09 PM »
Quote

createcoms wrote:
Good riddens to you 'AmigaOne' peep.

 :quickdraw:


um.. have we met?
 :-D
 

Offline downix

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Re: OS4, When ?
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2003, 08:47:40 PM »
@Rogue

Quote
Most of all it doesn't give anyone the right to proclaim that OS 4 will not be out this year. That is something that can only be said on December 31st, not a second earlier.


Actually, you're assuming that release can be instaneously handled.  Once the final-release form of the OS is established, you've got packaging, distribution, documentation, and most of all PUBLISHING to accomplish.  It takes 2-3 weeks for open-source CVS'd roll-your-own projects to go from code-done to public dissemination.  

Realistically, one can take an estimation of progress based on work done to date and work remaining to be done.  Will it be accurate, no, but it's a guestimate.  Ben Yoris did such a guestimate, based on his own experience.  You're free to make your own, based on your experience.

Myself, I'm awaiting AOS4's arrival, so we can show precisely why we have the superior product.  It's hard to compete with a ghost.
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