Blackwatch to be disbanded

[the_leander]

Yes, thats right, they're actually being told about it today, a day after the successfull attack yesterday, gotta hand it to this government, not only can they not get things right, but their timing can only be described as shocking.

So when they get back, a good proportion of them will be sacked the rest lumped into some form of "Super regiment".

Downsizing at a time of war, only a labour government could come up with this.

The 3Bn that they're going to use to fund these ID cards, would have payed for the maintainance of the various regiments of the army, a massive equipment overhaul and some new stuff to go with it.... Sickening really.


It was leaked last night by the BBC's "This Week" program

[PMC]

Only Blair / Hoon...

"Well done boys, you've served your country well.  However, we're going to merge you with the 3rd Foot and Mouth, which means job cuts all round.  Here's your P45s".

Our forces have been downsized steadily since the end of the war and no doubt will be privatised soon.  Our proposed new "super" aircraft carrier/s will be downsized so much that in order to get two Harriers parked on one, the second plane will need to remain hovering.  Which is a good thing really because fairly soon our entire fleet air arm will consist of one Harrier, sponsored by Pepsi and Virgin.

Rumours are rife that Geoff Hoon was so impressed with the "Rubber Band Gatling Cannon" that he saw on iwantoneofthose.com he's going to buy a few for the army.  Meanwhile, MPs have voted to increase their annual salary and also the maximum amount of expenses they're allowed to claim.  Again.

[Cyberus]

A great scar cut across the proud history of Scottish fighting men. {bleep}ing disgusting.

[the_leander]

These "Super" aircraft carriers are going to be loosely based on the old kit that got broken up/sold off just prior to the falklands, big ships indeed, but they aren't going to have any aircraft to fly off of them - the MOD's desire for this american VSTOVL stealth aircraft means that the ships will be ready for service in about 6 years, but they won't be compatible (the aircraft in question are already beyond the specs that the carriers are being built to) leaving the Navy looking rather daft.

Sea Harrier, the only variant that is designed to go into air to air combat has been withdrawn (3 months ago to be exact)... And the standard Harrier is not designed to be operated off of carriers (It can do it, but vital parts corrode - hence the original reason for Sea Harrier - it had those parts replaced with more Salt water resistant). Which means mainatanance of Harriers on board has increased exponentially...

Eurofighter, which has the salt water resistant parts in place already and would require little modification for full sea borne capability, has been discounted by the MOD because it would cost too much to equip the carriers with catapaults and arrestor gear... We have nothing else either in development or out there that could now operate off of the proposed carriers that could offer air to air defence.

[X-ray]

I wonder what will cost more, buying catapults or second-hand F18s (not the Super version) from the US?
Edit: assuming the deck is long enough

[PMC]

the_leander wrote:
These "Super" aircraft carriers are going to be loosely based on the old kit that got broken up/sold off just prior to the falklands, big ships indeed, but they aren't going to have any aircraft to fly off of them - the MOD's desire for this american VSTOVL stealth aircraft means that the ships will be ready for service in about 6 years, but they won't be compatible (the aircraft in question are already beyond the specs that the carriers are being built to) leaving the Navy looking rather daft.

Back in the 60's the MOD was tendering for two super carriers (to be called the HMS Queen Elizabeth II and HMS Prince Phillip, allegedly), which were cancelled when it was decided to downscale our navy to a helicopter carrier only role.  The Invincible class are indeed helicopter carriers that happen to be able to carry Harriers.

The last of the big carriers (HMS Hermes) was withdrawn soon after the Falklands conflict and sold to India.  

Fast forward 25 years and the new super carriers are designed to operate STOVL aircraft, and be upgraded in future with steam catapults should the need arise.  A service life of 50 years is forecast.  The F35 JSF is intended to be in service "by 2012", but on the face of it that looks optimistic, considering it took the F22 exactly 14 years to go from first flight (1990) to service (2004) and the Typhoon 18 years (first flight of BAe demonstrator was 1986).  The prototype STOVL JSF is said to be worryingly overweight.

Withdrawing the Sea Harrier was as shortsighted a plan as they come, the MOD has found a new way to waste millions (by flying standard Harriers from the carriers).  Well done Hoon!

Eurofighter, which has the salt water resistant parts in place already and would require little modification for full sea borne capability, has been discounted by the MOD because it would cost too much to equip the carriers with catapaults and arrestor gear... We have nothing else either in development or out there that could now operate off of the proposed carriers that could offer air to air defence.

Incredible... The carriers are designed to have it, but we can't afford to fit it.  

The French Navy with the Charles De Gaulle and their fleet of seaborne Rafales can surely be heard sniggering away even from this side of the channel...

Let's hope the JSF isn't delayed.

[the_leander]

Oh the decks are long enough, you just wont be able to send them up two at a time as you can with the US kit.

And yes, the costs for the solution you put forward would get around that easily, except that like the JSF or whatever its called, the F18 would be too heavy, you're idealy looking for something about the size and wieght of something like the F16,  Rafal (which is on the limit of wieght), Typhoon or the sweedish Gripen.

[PMC]

the_leander wrote:
Oh the decks are long enough, you just wont be able to send them up two at a time as you can with the US kit.

And yes, the costs for the solution you put forward would get around that easily, except that like the JSF or whatever its called, the F18 would be too heavy, you're idealy looking for something about the size and wieght of something like the F16,  Rafal (which is on the limit of wieght), Typhoon or the sweedish Gripen.

The Typhoon or Rafale are advantageous as they're twin engined jets, hence a greater safety margin.  The Royal Australian AF tend to favour twin jet designs for this reason as have the Royal Navy during the CTOL era.  

It's unbelieveable that the design of the carriers didn't take this into account.  

[the_leander]

Typhoon would have another advantage over everything else on that list - the parts would be cheeper as they would for the most part be identical to the air forces kit...

[PMC]

Option 3:  Buy back HMS Hermes from India...

:lol:

[the_leander]

Hermies never made it to india, upon arival in its new home port, it was crashed into the harbour wall, where it was left to rot, ironically, the Hermies was carrying hundreds of cars destined for various Indian diplomats and high ranking officials. All were lost as the ships hanger deck was submerged.

[the_leander]

And if you follow this link, you'll get a picture of the new carriers

CVF Carrier

And they'll be about 60,000 tonnes, against the Centuar class's 51,000 tonnes (Of which Hermies was) putting it into the Light Fleet Carrier (LFC) class of vessel.

Other classes in the Light Fleet Class included Centaur, Collossus, Majestic and Audacious. And most of these classes had between 4 an 6 Vessels in each class. And they can all be viewed here

[Dan]

the_leander wrote:
... or the swedish Gripen.

You can get those cheap, our government contracted Saab to make loads of them before they started the current wave of defence downcuts, so they have a lot contracted that will never be used in the swedish defence. They are desperate to sell them, Göran Persson is looking like a door-to-door airplane salesman.
Well at least the Austrians got free Viggens and spare parts so somebody is happy about it. :-)