No more MorphOS for Pegasos? :-(

[seer]

plus, i wouldn't say that waiting a YEAR to get paid before one says anything is unreasonable.

Most people would have quit 1 or 2 months of no pay. Afterall, food doesn't come free and nobody else is going to pay your bills.

it shows a great deal of patience. more than I would have.

Hmm. Maybe, or maybe a bit of, how to put it, to much faith in something/one ?

[cecilia]

please understand something about the way BBRV operate:

they go looking ("headhunting") for people who are talented and love amiga. No one needs incentive to work on an amiga-project.

The draw into the MOS/peg project was the idea that one could work with other like-minded amiga-users. that it would be this great group-effort. an army of creative people working for toward the future.

and all this included getting paid!

well, when the various persons discovered that the people at the top are incompetant (they lie to their employees, they attack any employee that has the nerve to ask, "so, where's the money that I have ALREADY slaved away and deserve?", and they are really bad at communicating with said employees.) then they knew it's time to leave.

it's really easy to imply that these people are somehow stupid or have stars in their eyes, but if you really think about it, all it says is that there are people who are willing to work hard on a project that is worth it.

but if you have nincompops at the top, it will all go pear-shaped. no matter how hard the people in the group work.

which is why I ask amiga users to only EVER trust themselves and not bother with any more CEO's.

[Samuar]

It is an all too familiar story, not just within the community, but the company too:

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6499

r.e. OpenBSD.


Out of interest, could Amiga.org get an official statement from Genesi and another from the MorphOS Dev team?

Samuar

[Argo]

True, Morphos was in development way before Genesi. It started out alittle after AROS, about 10 years ago as an idea that grew. Genesi came along, promised money to the developers which would allow them more time to work on Morphos, not to mention new members to the dev team attracted by the money. With that money gone, the developers in it for the money are going to be pissed and rightly so. Development will probably continue, but at it's pre-Genesi pace as it returns to a pure volunteer venture. Oh, there will be some disruption in development til all of this settles out. Stuff pulled out of CVS by the disgruntled unpaid developers, parts will have to be rewritten, etc.
Continued development means no company support and marketing anymore, no dedicated hardware platform, and a few other benefits they had with Genesi. That is assuming that this all results in all present and future ties with Genesi being cut. Guess that depends on who controls Morphos development. I assume Ralph Schmitt. That would put the ball in his court. I can't see him giving up on his project, even though it's going to take a hell of a hit. I just wouldn't expect 1.5 anytime soon.
Those 4 developers, that we know of so far, are out collectively to the tune of about $100,000. That's not an OOPs. Guess that explains the face change on the Morphos.net website awhile back.

[clebin]

@KennyR

Well, you say that Genesi have nothing to do with MorphOS outside of the Pegasos. I read a post on MorphZone which led me to believe the same thing, but on OS News bbrv says:

"MorphOS is still very much owned by Genesi/bplan. Ralph Schmidt is still very much a part of the Company and Ralph *is* MorphOS. You do not see him complaining. He is busy on development and not message boards."

On MorphZone the story is slightly different - some pieces are owned by Genesi while others like MUI are not. But it seems like MorphOS can't exist without Genesi, which is very sad.

I'll be interested to see what happens to this code - whether there's anything that AROS could use and whether the programmers would want that. I'll also be interested in whether OS 4 ever appears on Pegasos. Supporting 'innocent' users vs. getting involved with Genesi is a tough one to manage - you couldn't blame them for going either way.

Chris

[TheMagicM]

Unfortunate thing.. what can you do?  you WANT the PPC mobo (A1 and Pegasos), you just dont like the owners.  I like the way AOS is owned by Hyperion.. if you buy it, you pay them correct?    Only problem is, if any company goes down, the mobo's go with them.   Only real replacement is a Mac PPC solution?  Running MOS or OS4.    Have either sides considered porting to Mac PPC ?

[Cymric]

So much anger. So much unethical and downright criminal business behaviour. So many skeletons in the closet. So many financial troubles. So much back-biting. So many egos. So much sadness. So much naivety.

And all that for a computer system which has a world wide user base written with four digits. One would be forgiven the thought that we are dealing with As The World Turns.

[clebin]

@TheMagicM

If MOS development really has stalled I suppose Hyperion could develop an unsupported/semi-supported OS 4 port as a gift (albeit not a free one) to Pegasos owners. But would even an unsupported AmigaOS cause people to buy Pegasos over AmigaOne?

I think Genesi said they had considered a Mac port of OS 4, but obviously it's difficult to see that happening now.

With a Mac port - Linux being an exception - you do run up against what Be Inc ran up against, which is being made to feel "unwelcome" by Apple and denied any kind of documentation. That was enough for Be, although I felt at the time they gave in too easily... Again, it's for an armchair pundit to say that.

[kd7ota]

Though I never used MorphOS or ever owned a Pegasos board...

It does kinda suck to have to hear that they are having problems of their own.  I really did like the looks of MorphOS and what it was capable of doing.  I personally an a big Amiga fan all the way.

I really hope all the issues get sorted and the continuation of MorphOS occurs.  Same goes for Amiga OS 4.


Heheheheeh, but until then... Commodore 64 rules!  :-D

[iamaboringperson]

I've suffered a similar experience (related business, too), and I certainly know how they feel.

And so I don't blame them.  But they took this long??

I suppose that shows that they care about a little more than the money, they're passionate about the project, too.

But having said all that, I must admitt I feel sorry for BBRV/Genesi. Employees usually don't get paid like this because there is no money coming into the company. That's why getting into such an expensive a niche does this.

I don't see folks at Apple, HP/Compaq, IBM Microsoft doing this.

They have a LOT more income.

[DonnyEMU]

They sound like the only people who haven't never got paid what someone owes them here. My point is a simple one, this does not belong here.. It belongs in a court house and saying things like this in a public forum can hurt your viability of such claims in court.. I didn't say they didn't  have a right to be upset, it just doesn't belong here.. I am not against them. If someone owes me money I address it but I do it in the right venue. This certainly isn't the proper one..

cecilia wrote:
listen, darling, if only you knew how little some people have actually said!

there are people who have lived through [color=ff0000]HELL[/color] this last year, and have said absolutely nothing.

as for these programmers: for the last several weeks people on MorphZone have asked and wondered why there is no news and updates for MOS4.1???

I believe that this simple announcement was just an answer to these people - most of whom HAVE a peg and really deserve some info.

plus, i wouldn't say that waiting a YEAR to get paid before one says anything is unreasonable.

it shows a great deal of patience. more than I would have.

Of course, I don't think talking about money in public is professional, but I understand what has happened here.

And it's alot more professional than what BBRV have done!

[Argo]

Maybe they have some vague hope of getting paid at least some money or installments. This all could be some odd form of negotiations. Try to force Genesi's hand by going to the public. Risky, could get nasty.
We really don't know much about this exact situation. Maybe they have talked to lawyers, maybe they haven't. With over a year of not being paid, something must have been going on. We just don't know the whole story, probably never will.
You're right, they should all be in court. A nice class action lawsuit of all the unpaid Genesi employees and contract employees, but lawyers cost money and when you haven't been paid tens of thousands of dollars, you probably don't have alot a spare cash. Not to mention Genesi's books are probably in the Red and I bet Buck has is net worth arranged to show as a much smaller amount than it truely is. I'm not sure how his net worth would facter in anywhere. I've never been able to figure out how all his business ventures are related and noone has been able to explain it(at least not the same way backed up with facts). It all seems kind of shady to me.
You're right, all of this is between Genesi and those with grevances against them. What should be more of a concern to us, the community, is how will this affect Morphos. Buck has already mentioned components being removed and some being changed out. Morphos 1.5 looks to being delayed long enough and modified as a result of this to be called Morphos II.
We'll just have to wait and see! Psst! Pass the popcorn.

[Samuar]

Instead of arguing about the rights and wrongs, perhaps the real issue is "what can we do to help?"

samuar

[KimmoK]

@KennyR

"1) Genesi does not own MorphOS..."


http://www.genesi.lu/corporate.php
"The engineering team that originally developed the Pegasos and MorphOS are actively involved in deciding the Company's activities and future."

And:
http://www.genesi.lu/contact_info.php
"bplan (Genesi Germany)
Attention: Thomas Knäbel
Adenauerallee 10
61440 Oberursel
Germany "

And:
http://www.genesi.lu/strategy.php
"Genesi owns MorphOS and develops and modifies it internally."

And:
http://www.amiga-topcool.de/Neuigkeiten/interviews/ralphschmidt/ralphenglish/ralphenglish.html
"I'm a partner in bPlan and so MorphOS is a part of bPlan"

And:
http://amiga.emugaming.com/press/nov23rd2002.html
"Paris, France - November 23, 2002 Thendic-France SARL and bplan GmbH of Frankfurt, Germany have reached an agreement to merge and form a new company. "


And:
OS News by BBRV  (15.11.2004):
"MorphOS is still very much owned by Genesi/bplan. Ralph Schmidt is still very much a part of the Company and Ralph *is* MorphOS."


I'm sorry.  :-(