No more MorphOS for Pegasos? :-(

[TheMagicM]

I've never looked at AROS.  Cool to see a bootable cd.. I'll download the image tonight.

[Karlos]

I tried a version of AROS a while back for x86.

Which was nice.

[amigamad]

I feel sorry for the people that have not been paid, not paying for work they have done is the same as stealing it also helps to wreck the amiga community. :-?

KennyR wrote:

TheMagicM wrote:
Unfair? Unfair is not getting your freakin money!! $10k - $33k I could care less of owners of either side, but developers deserve their money after the time they spent programming on their system. When talking in private didnt work, I would have done exactly the same. This isnt some cheap $88 A1200 ebay scam.. we're talking $10,000+ US$. Oh and there is another guy we ALL know that is owed money to! For shame BBRV!

That has nothing to do with MorphOS or the people who use it. I don't why we should suffer because of it.

Fekking Hell Kenny, what happened to you having left wing beliefs?

I'd go on strike, and take my employer to court if they didn't pay me.

[odin]

I am totally not suprised :roll:. I guess any company headed by a person going by the name of Bill just sucks. Hmmmm, after the Amiga-curse, do we have the Bill-curse?

[KennyR]

wtf...are people deliberately trying not to see what I mean? For the last time, I DO NOT SUPPORT GENESI NOT PAYING ITS EMPLOYEES, FOR ANY REASON. Wait, better repeat that:

I DO NOT SUPPORT GENESI NOT PAYING ITS EMPLOYEES, FOR ANY REASON. There, I think that's clear.

What I am concerned about is the impact that this has on MorphOS development in general, regardless of Genesi. I am concerned because:

1) Genesi does not own MorphOS. They funded it a while, possibly because of its interest in embedded apps, possibly because it sold some Pegasos. They paid MorphOS developers to advance the platform. Then they ran out of money, or so they said.

2) MorphOS development continues without funding from Genesi, and started without funding from Genesi. Genesi are not linked to MorphOS at all, except through the Pegasos.

3) Genesi having unpaid money to some MorphOS developers has got little to do with MorphOS itself. Genesi still don't own MorphOS, whether they've paid to it or not. The decision of developers to attack Genesi in this way for not paying them negatively affects MorphOS and unfairly hurts the people who have contributed to MorphOS without being connected to Genesi, and there are many.

The issue is complex. It's not really a matter of Genesi not paying people for doing stuff, it's the fact that they misled people into thinking they'd get paid more. Genesi don't own the code these people wrote anyway, at least to my knowledge!

What kind of allegory can I use? Perhaps a developer holding the whole AROS project to ransom because he didn't get the donation he was promised for a component? Hmm, not very fitting but close enough.

[Sparky]

How does the Amiga world manage to attract sooooooooo many people and companies who are completely inept at running a business ?

You'd think that anyone with half a brain could work out that "If we don't get some money in x months we won't be able to pay Fred." ... though it's more likey a case of "We've got not money left ... ahh balls to it Fred will work for free for a few months yet!"

It would be interesting to see how many companies and names could be listed as either going belly up and/or shafted the Amiga userbase and developers ...

Bunch of muppets  :-(

Kenny,

Completely wrong, but a good try..  People work for money.  If there is no money, it's a hobby, and as stated it doesn't operate as a business.  When company hires someone to create a product, then doesn't pay, they don't get product.  The developers took a job to develop product. That product has never been paid for, and there is no "blackmail" at play here.  Bill didn't pay, Bill can't play.

There's obviously a lot more going on behind the scenes than what's being seen here, but the fact that Genesi continues to screw it's employees should not surprise anyone.

Wayne

[KennyR]

Wayne wrote:
Completely wrong, but a good try.. People work for money. If there is no money, it's a hobby, and as stated it doesn't operate as a business.

But as I already told you, there are MorphOS core developers who didn't work for money and do see it as a hobby. This action has certainly not been unanimous among all of them. Genesi deserves all it gets with this, it's not as if we didn't warn them, about a thousand f**king times. But this is taking someone's hard personal work - not their business - and ripping it up in front of their faces. That someone is the hobbyists, particularly Ralph Schmidt, who has worked hardest of all to see MorphOS become what it is.

If people treated like crap take on Genesi, good luck to them. But they've also made it sound like the whole development team are with them and that MorphOS is dead, which really isn't the case. I wish them the best of luck wheedling their money out of Genesi's tight grasp, but I really wish they wouldn't use MorphOS as a weapon. It's not theirs to use.

KennyR wrote:

Wayne wrote:
Completely wrong, but a good try.. People work for money. If there is no money, it's a hobby, and as stated it doesn't operate as a business.

But as I already told you, there are MorphOS core developers who didn't work for money and do see it as a hobby. This action has certainly not been unanimous among all of them. Genesi deserves all it gets with this, it's not as if we didn't warn them, about a thousand f**king times. But this is taking someone's hard personal work - not their business - and ripping it up in front of their faces. That someone is the hobbyists, particularly Ralph Schmidt, who has worked hardest of all to see MorphOS become what it is.

If people treated like crap take on Genesi, good luck to them. But they've also made it sound like the whole development team are with them and that MorphOS is dead, which really isn't the case. I wish them the best of luck wheedling their money out of Genesi's tight grasp, but I really wish they wouldn't use MorphOS as a weapon. It's not theirs to use.

The whole of MorphOS may not be David, Stefan, Treveur and Olivers, but the code THEY wrote is.  If they decide not to release their code it is their decision.

MorphOS will still carry on, albeit with some major functionality removed, but it'll still be MorphOS.

Maybe the aforementioned devs could release their code on a shareware type release scheme to keep us all happy, and they would get some remuneration for their hard work?

There is nothing stopping any of us recompiling the missing bits using AROS code.  In a way similar to how BeOS users (including myself) replace bits of BeOS with Haiku stuff piecemeal.

Kenny?

Based on these comments, I'm really, really starting to see why so many people have a problem with you.  It's maybe not what you're saying, but the way you're saying it.  (OK, in this instance, it is what you're saying).

No one is "using MorphOS as a weapon".  People were contracted or employed to provide something.  That is the only reason they were involved in the first place.  They have obligations and need of money to pay their own responsibilities.  When they didn't get the money that was contractually promised to them, there is no reason for them to turn over (or continue) their hard work for free.

You can't convince me that there is a larger picture here.  Bill made yet another promise to people in order to get their assistance (or product) and has yet again failed to pay for it, leaving people in his wake and pretending like he's the victim here.  

{edit: I'm sorry for the other programmers who may be affected by this, and I'm happy -- if it is true -- for those who are actually seeing money from their efforts but I have strong doubts of anyone aside from Matt Sealey actually being paid}

Interestingly, these guys were owed money dating from July 2003, which even predates the two months that Bill owes me.   That means that when I was being officially brought on (and announced) at Amiwest 2003, the MorphOS team members (at least the periphery programmers) were already being screwed by the time I was brought on board.  A little fact that no one bothered to tell me, or I never would have taken the job.  

I would admire the loyalty of such employees not to have taken this action much much sooner.

Wayne

[DonnyEMU]

This is one of the things that I very much dislike about this community. People think it's cool to air disputes for money on this board and it really shows unprofessionality of the people involved (employees) and management of a company to be talking about this to users of a product. It makes the product look bad, it makes the company look disparaged, and the community yet again looses faith..

I don't see folks at Apple, HP/Compaq, IBM Microsoft doing this. If this is a legal matter take it to the courts where it belongs. A job is a job, this isn't some holy quest. If you have some rumor that morphos is gonna disappear why don't you just keep it to yourself until there is some sort of official annoucement..

Dirty laundry is just that dirty laundry and whoever handles it looks soiled..

 :pissed:

Good point.  This isn't about the Amiga or the Amiga community, so I'm kind of surprised it's here at all.

[seer]

so I'm kind of surprised it's here at all.

Really ? I'm not. Just a tipical event on a average day in the wonderful Amiga world..

[cecilia]

DonnyEMU wrote:
This is one of the things that I very much dislike about this community. People think it's cool to air disputes for money on this board and it really shows unprofessionality of the people involved (employees) and management of a company to be talking about this to users of a product.

listen, darling, if only you knew how little some people have actually said!

there are people who have lived through [color=ff0000]HELL[/color] this last year, and have said absolutely nothing.

as for these programmers: for the last several weeks people on MorphZone have asked and wondered why there is no news and updates for MOS4.1???

I believe that this simple announcement was just an answer to these people - most of whom HAVE a peg and really deserve some info.

plus, i wouldn't say that waiting a YEAR to get paid before one says anything is unreasonable.

it shows a great deal of patience. more than I would have.

Of course, I don't think talking about money in public is professional, but I understand what has happened here.

And it's alot more professional than what BBRV have done!

[seer]

plus, i wouldn't say that waiting a YEAR to get paid before one says anything is unreasonable.

Most people would have quit 1 or 2 months of no pay. Afterall, food doesn't come free and nobody else is going to pay your bills.

it shows a great deal of patience. more than I would have.

Hmm. Maybe, or maybe a bit of, how to put it, to much faith in something/one ?