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Author Topic: How not to handle a rifle  (Read 3240 times)

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Offline X-rayTopic starter

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How not to handle a rifle
« on: August 31, 2004, 09:08:59 PM »
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_featurevideo.htm

 :lol:

(I know it's an oldie, but it's a goodie)
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 09:24:36 PM »
heh


on a slightly OT note - can any of the Americans on the board answer a question for me:
If I visit the US (never been before) am I allowed to use firearms on a range, not being a US citizen? I used to fire rifles and LMGs when I was an army cadet, and would like to have a go on a rifle range again - really enjoyed shooting when I was younger.
I like Amigas
 

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 09:43:37 PM »
@ Cyberus

You can still fire rifles in the UK, but most ranges will only let you fire rim-fire weapons such as semi-automatic .22s. They usually have centre-fire carbines too, in popular handgun calibres susch as .38, .44 and .45. Black powder weapons are also popular. In fact those are the only handguns that are legal to fire in the UK.
If you want to fire heavy rifles you'll have to go to Bisley.

But I can pretty much guarantee (based on my visit to the US in 2003) that you'll be able to find somebody who will take you out to a quiet place and tear a cactus in half with an Uzi machine pistol or a self-loading rifle.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 10:11:23 PM »
Quote

Cyberus wrote:
heh


on a slightly OT note - can any of the Americans on the board answer a question for me:
If I visit the US (never been before) am I allowed to use firearms on a range, not being a US citizen? I used to fire rifles and LMGs when I was an army cadet, and would like to have a go on a rifle range again - really enjoyed shooting when I was younger.


Yeah, I used to enjoy the LW90 :-)

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 10:15:45 PM »
@ Bloodline

It looks big and mean, I agree  :-P

http://www.newhollandconstruction.com/products/detail.asp?Reg=NA&RL=ENNA&id=887&archived=0

You got the model number right?
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2004, 01:41:46 AM »
Since I'm bored, and trying to calm down after breaking the tray of my CDRW (cutting myself in the process), damaging my computer tower and cutting my hands up trying to take the drive out and fix the tray, I'll calculate some physics from this.

First I have to convert these archaic American units. I can't work in such weird, hard to use non-decimal systems.

The rifle weighs = 13.6 Lb (6.2 kg in real units).
The bullet weighs = 720 grain (0.047 kg).
Muzzle velocity = 2600 fps (792.5 metres/second).

First I want to calculate the momentum of the bullet as it left the muzzle, so I can calculate the momentum of the gun jumping backwards. Momentum is the product of mass and velocity, so:

M = m*v

This number would meaningless in itself, but we can insert it into a balanced equation where the momentum of the bullet is m2*v2 and the momentum of the gun moving back in recoil is m1*v1. Since they are equal (every action has an equal and opposite reaction), we can equate them. We also know three of the values so we can plug them in to get the fourth.

m1*v1 = m2*v2 => 6.2*v1 = 0.047*792.5

Rearranging algebraically gives:

v1 = (0.47*792.5)/6.2 = 60.1 m/s

Which means the rifle jumps back at 60.1 metres per second (134.4 mph, or 197.2 feet per second). Imagine 14 Lb hitting your arm at 134.4 mph.

If this isn't impressive enough, we can calculate the force applied by this. Since almost all of it is applied over a very short time, and I can't be arsed, I won't calculate impulse. First, to get acceleration we'll *assume* that the speed of 60.1 m/s is reached only in a fiftieth of a second, 0.02 s. Acceleration is the quotient of velocity and time, so

A = v/t = 60.1/0.02 = 3005 m/s².

And force is the product of mass and acceleration:

F = m*a = 6.2*3005 = 21700 newtons.

21700 newtons is roughly equivalent to a weight of 2170 kg, or 2.4 tons, or 16125 foot-pounds (as opposed to the 11000 foot-pounds force advertised). Although 2.4 tons sounds a lot, it's only applied for a very short time.

So basically it was incredibly DUMB to fire that kind of rifle without a recoil damper or a tripod, and if it hasn't spun out of his hands it would probably totally shattered his collarbone. Now you know the physics reasons why. :) Nobody that stupid should be allowed a lighter, never mind a gun.

Just feel pity for anything on the other end of the bullet. If the bullet was brass it could pentrate about 15mm of plate steel, if it was steel about 30mm, if tungsten about 45mm, if DU about 60mm (enough to knock out a WW2 tank with a decent hit). A human being would be transformed into a pile of shapeless flesh by the passage of the supersonic shock wave alone. Obviously one not suitable for 'protecting your property' with, unless you are being attacked by armoured vehicles and have a very, very strong arm. Or are just incredibly thick and think big guns are cool.
 

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 08:20:47 AM »
@ Kenny

That video was taken from another website originally (I will find it) where several people (at least ten) fired the rifle. Although the recoil is brisk, it is not unmanageable: many of the shooters handled it just fine. If you play the video frame by frame you will see that our unfortunate man has not held the rifle firmly enough and he has allowed it to jump backwards at an angle. His stance wasn't ideal either.

Edit: here's the link

http://www.accuratereloading.com/videos.html
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 08:38:58 AM »
Quote

X-ray wrote:
@ Bloodline

It looks big and mean, I agree  :-P

http://www.newhollandconstruction.com/products/detail.asp?Reg=NA&RL=ENNA&id=887&archived=0

You got the model number right?


Hmmm... :-D

I think I meant the IW90 (or maybe it was the L85), I get the numbers confused but basicly a single shot version of the SA80.

Offline mikeymike

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 12:37:06 PM »
Quote
I get the numbers confused but basicly a single shot version of the SA80.


L-98.  I fired it in the ATC.  Enjoyable unless it is a very cold day and your upper-body strength isn't at rock-ape levels (reloading requires a strong-ish arm).  Though last time I fired it, I guess I was about 15 or 16, and a good deal smaller than I am now :-)
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2004, 12:56:33 PM »
Uh, isn't that only like 5.56mm? About .22 calibre? And it's muzzle velocity is much lower than usual rifles. I imagine the recoil from that is like being slapped with a small, underfed goldfish.
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2004, 03:10:51 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Uh, isn't that only like 5.56mm?


Correct.

Quote
About .22 calibre?


Dunno.  Can't remember, it has been a while since I've seen one.

Quote
And it's muzzle velocity is much lower than usual rifles. I imagine the recoil from that is like being slapped with a small, underfed goldfish.


The .22 rifle is like that.  The L-98 hasn't got much of a kick on it, probably triple the kick of the .22 rifle.  A satisfying amount of kick (at least, that's how I remembered it) :-)
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2004, 03:16:29 PM »
Completely OT:

Did you sell legolas.com?

Did the prepubescent girls saying, 'You suck' finally get to you? :lol:
I like Amigas
 

Offline whabang

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2004, 03:34:28 PM »
*google*
He still owns it. :-)
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2004, 03:35:04 PM »
Quote
Cyberus wrote:
Completely OT:

Did you sell legolas.com?

Did the prepubescent girls saying, 'You suck' finally get to you? :lol:


Heh.  No, I still run it.  A friend persuaded me to try the forums idea with banners at the top, in an attempt to make a little bit of money.

I'm still looking to sell it.  I haven't figured out what'd be the best way of getting the highest number of people to see that it is for sale, though it might not be worth much now that the LotR trilogy has finished in the cinema.

 

Offline KennyR

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Re: How not to handle a rifle
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2004, 05:10:24 PM »
Quote
Mikeymike wrote:
The .22 rifle is like that. The L-98 hasn't got much of a kick on it, probably triple the kick of the .22 rifle. A satisfying amount of kick (at least, that's how I remembered it)


5.56mm *is* .22 inch, that's why I'm confused. Maybe there's a different cartridge size, then, between standard .22 rifles and NATO 5.56mm rounds. But I don't see why that would be, since the NATO round is designed for assault rifles and so has a reduced charge compared to semi-automatics.

Incidentally, the reason why this tiny round is so deadly is because it fragments and spins on impact, almost making it a fragmentation (frangible) round. That's barely keeping to the Geneva Convention, which rules that only solid FMJ ammunition may be used in warfare.