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Offline JaXanimTopic starter

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Extending USB via Ethernet
« on: July 23, 2004, 11:06:42 PM »
I'm so dumb on this, I don't even know if the question makes sense!

Anyway, I'd like to extend my USB1.1 webcam so it will run outside the house (telescope) and receive video on my PeeCee (Win98SE/PII400) about 20+ metres away.

I understand that USB will not operate properly beyond six or seven metres. Mine runs OK with a 5m extension, but not more. I've read that 'repeater' cables are a waste of time.

I read that an ethernet system can be set up to transfer the signals from the USB webcam. So, in the simplest possible terms, what do I need?

Cheers,

JaX

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Offline Lemmink

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Re: Extending USB via Ethernet
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2004, 01:31:49 AM »
I`m not sure but this ethernet thing would probably involve a second PC that is closer to the cam and that is forwarding the image it gets from the cam to the "real" destination via some VNC like tool.

You can`t extend USB unlimited useing repeaters, but useing USB-Hubs with an own powersupply should work.

But where is the point why not take a good oldfashioned videocamera and feed the TV-card with it useing an F-BAS or SVHS cable.
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Offline ent0mbed

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Re: Extending USB via Ethernet
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2004, 04:52:01 AM »
I think you may be trying to do something that the equipment just wasn't designed for.  I would recommend that you might want to check into a camera that is designed for what you are trying to accomplish.  Here is a link I found on Google for a wireless camera:

http://www.x10.com/

I know this probably isn't what you're looking for, but it might be your most realistic solution?
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Extending USB via Ethernet
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2004, 06:33:55 AM »
Quote

JaXanim wrote:
I'm so dumb on this, I don't even know if the question makes sense!

Anyway, I'd like to extend my USB1.1 webcam so it will run outside the house (telescope) and receive video on my PeeCee (Win98SE/PII400) about 20+ metres away.

I understand that USB will not operate properly beyond six or seven metres. Mine runs OK with a 5m extension, but not more. I've read that 'repeater' cables are a waste of time.

I read that an ethernet system can be set up to transfer the signals from the USB webcam. So, in the simplest possible terms, what do I need?

Cheers,

JaX
A second PC (old laptop, mini-ITX, etc?), the VideoLan package, fast ethernet cards, waterproofing goop for the project boxes and connections (don't use silicone caulk on electrical connections themselves, it's corrosive... automotive windshield gasket material - black putty goop that stays malleable for life, comes in a huge roll - is the same as what Radio Shack used to sell in little rolls as connector weather sealant), some electrical knowledge to get appropriate power to the outside PC, and a lot of futzing time.

If you're using Windows on both ends, the webcam software itself may be good enough; Logitech used to ship their cams with a terrible little app that took advantage of Win98's "Personal Web Server," meaning you'd get something like a snap-per-second over HTTP with a few clicks.  Cleaning up any worms that sneak into a box that resides on your roof probably isn't very fun, though, so Windows or not, now's a good time to look into the zaniness of "netbooting" (meaning the OS image resides on a fileserver somewhere inside the house).

If this makes you insane, ethernet (and wireless ethernet) cameras with some streaming ability are now pretty darn cheap, and you might want to give up and go with one of those.  Even Thendic were marketing one, remember?

---

As to extending USB itself, in theory, a 1.x device should work to something like 25 meters out, with a good quality cable, and a single powered hub... probably best placed at the device end, so the device gets full voltage and current without losses.  Kiwis have been putting USB 802.11b dongles on roof-mounted masts with good luck, (mirror), so you might want to read their experiences and/or ask them about your cam troubles.

(I sort of lied there, as I can't find the right link.  There's *another* Kiwi who directly mast-mounted a USB adapter like that, for omnidirectional coverage, and with a wonderfully psychotic JPEG of a diagram explaining how the wiring runs... but I have no idea where it is.  Since only three people live in New Zealand, those guys surely must have record of the other page.)
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: Extending USB via Ethernet
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2004, 06:48:43 AM »
Quote

You can`t extend USB unlimited useing repeaters, but useing USB-Hubs with an own powersupply should work.


Hmm... I don't think so.  I think USB uses a fairly tight timing, and signal propagation times would probably cause you problems if you tried this.  

Actually, reading, I see that the USB limit is 30 meters with 5 repeating hubs, and no segments longer than 5 meters.  So it MIGHT be able to make it, but not have much to spare.  Personally, I'm not sure I'd trust that connection.  

Quote
If this makes you insane, ethernet (and wireless ethernet) cameras with some streaming ability are now pretty darn cheap, and you might want to give up and go with one of those.


This is probably the best advice, if you can do it.  Go with a camera over ethernet, instead.