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Author Topic: Calculating the distance between stars  (Read 10912 times)

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Offline Cymric

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #29 from previous page: July 21, 2004, 11:12:56 PM »
Okay, looks I made a few errors---it is a well-known fact engineers cannot calculate things properly ;-). First of all, Blobrana's method of Pyhtagoras-ing the angles and then applying the sine rule is simple and valid, of course. Second---and much more serious---I made an error in the conversion formula: in the expression for P_y the cos(g) should of course read sin(g). (It was very nice to enter a few numbers which mysteriously did not lie a distance 1 away from the origin in Cartesian coordinates, even though that is what I put them at in spherical ones...) Apologies all around. Third correction is that in order to use the astronomical values as given by Blobrana, you need to convert the value of f as well: negate the value before use. Astronomers use a left-handed system *sigh*. Also nice to track down.

So, to give a number example to calculate the angle subtended the hard way: Betelgeuse and Rigel are reported at 88.75 RA, 7 DE; and 77.5 RA, -8 DE; convert that to -88.75, 83; and -77.5, 98 degrees and plug those values into the corrected formulas. You end up with Cartesian coordinates (0.02165, -0.9923, 0.1218) for Betelgeuse and (0.2143, -0.9668, -0.1392) for Rigel---note that for now we do not need to know their distances to the Sun, as we're interested in the angle only, and that is independent of the distance. We can assume those to be 1 for convenience. Vector algebra will then tell you that the inner product of these two vectors equals the cosine of the angle subtended (times the length of both vectors, which is 1, hurray), and if I do the math, I end up with an angle of 18.7 degrees. Which is exactly equal to what you end up with following Blobrana's Pythagoras-approach.

Now I know why we are not taught spherical geometry :-D.
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Offline blobrana

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2004, 12:09:14 AM »
Hum,

So i use a quick mental check to see if the onboard computer hasn't gone mad:
Let’s see...
We have the angle 18 degrees (near enough to 20 degrees and a third of 60 degrees , which is a  isosceles triangle  , with 3 equal sides...
Betelgeuse 427
Rigel 772

772-427=345 (so it must be bigger than that)

Now this is where you use the (other) rough Pythagoras/trig  calculation

One side of the triangle (at right angle) is 345^2 = 119025
The base line (guessed/work from the angle, a third of 427 ) is (say) 142 light years
142 *142 = 20164
119025 +20164 = 139189


Sqr139189 = 373 light years...
Which is pretty close to my spaceships odometer....

(er, only 19 light years out -  ok so you wouldn`t risk a hyperjump with it but its a rough guide)




Offline Cymric

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2004, 08:22:50 AM »
With the cosine rule

    a^2 = b^2 + c^2 - 2 b c cos \alpha

with b = 427 ly, c = 772 ly, and \alpha 18.7 degrees, I calculate the distance a to be 392.2 ly. Funny how a constellation turns out not to be 'flat' even though we perceive it as such.

In any case, this solves Kenny's problem.
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Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2004, 05:12:24 PM »
Hey Kenny...

I've found a website that has a database of stars and can give you pretty much instantly the distance between any two stars you can name.

Try it yourself.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2004, 06:34:44 PM »
Quote

blobrana wrote:
Hum,
To figure it roughly don't bother with Spherical trigonometry,
Just use standard 2d coordinates with Pythagoras theorem...


Lol, that's what I was going to say for about half a second after I read the original question, then I realised it wouldn't work and I was too lazy to put any more thought into it  :-P

It'll be close sometimes if the stars are on the same side of the sun, but falls all to hell once you try using it for stars on the other side. :-)
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Offline blobrana

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2004, 07:59:52 PM »
hum,
>> but falls all to hell

Yeah, using the rough mental method, it would, but it'll be within the right magnitude,
If you didn't have a calculator with cosine on it (er, like me), and just to verify that the cosine-rule calculation (see my other post) did produce a meaningful result...

The important thing is that it is all on one plane, so that the rough and accurate method work...




[Anyway I've got a spaceship that does that all for me...]
[go on, ask me the distance between two stars...any stars...]
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Offline mpiva

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2004, 10:55:40 PM »
  Go to:

http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html

It explains all this stuff in great detail with a step-by-step explaination of how to do the calculations.
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Offline blobrana

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Re: Calculating the distance between stars
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2004, 11:32:15 PM »
Hum,
a nice link...

I'll peruse that one later...