graphic card

[Hyperspeed]

Damnit!

Tell me what differentiates an Amiga from your average PC!

Is it not the video capability out of the box? What does a Mediator
do? It flushes your video capability down the toilet.

If you want to use classic chipset software, video genlock and toaster
etc. how do you manage with all these generic PC cards in your machine
with their generic drivers.

This isn't the evolution Dave Haynie would have wanted, this is going
down the slippery slope of the Ateo Bus (albeit in PCI as opposed to
ISA). And look what happened to that lump of cr@p!

My advice to all who want to enjoy the most out of their Amiga is to
get a Picasso-IV. There aren't many around so if you are serious then
make someone a serious offer.

[Brian]

What differens the Amiga from the PC apart from the community and the OS you meen? Well... the Amiga have a soul and PCI doesn't remove that in any way. But both are computers and it's not the first time Amiga take advantage of cheap cards on the PC. I meen MAC also have PCI, A1 have PCI, does that make them PC's? Let me answerr that for you... the answerr is No.

As stated before what do you think the different expansion sollusions on the PIV is? It don't have the PCI formfactor but... Same goes for a number of other expansions on the Amiga such as the graphic slot on the BPPC/CVPPC for instance.

PCI is a step forward, not backwards... as less and less cards get manufacturered for Zorro and more and more of the old cards die out where do you think we will end if we don't have another road to walk?

I rather pay 129$ for a PCI solusion and 30-40$ for a used Voodoo3 than 200$ for a much slower PIV.

[Karlos]

Hyperspeed wrote:
Damnit!

Tell me what differentiates an Amiga from your average PC!

If you need us to answer that for you, it's clear you are missing the point totally.

Is it not the video capability out of the box? What does a Mediator do? It flushes your video capability down the toilet.

No it doesn't - not even close. I know of many people here who route their native video straight into an inexpensive "generic" TV card on their "generic" PCI expansion bus and with their "generic" drivers are perfectly happy watching native video on their "generic" flickefree SVGA compatible monitors :-P

If you want to use classic chipset software, video genlock and toaster etc. how do you manage with all these generic PC cards in your machine with their generic drivers.

Well perhaps now you know the answer. Also, if you are so keen on your video work, what is stopping you using a dual head display with your native video going via all your genlock etc into a professional PAL display and have your OS and apps running on your graphics card?

This isn't the evolution Dave Haynie would have wanted, this is going down the slippery slope of the Ateo Bus (albeit in PCI as opposed to ISA). And look what happened to that lump of cr@p!

The PCI expansion busses available at present are nothing like the ateobus. Dave Haynie recognised that PCI offers everything a bus needed to build a better Amiga, faster and cheaper than the Zorro III standard. Get over yourself already.

My advice to all who want to enjoy the most out of their Amiga is to get a Picasso-IV. There aren't many around so if you are serious then make someone a serious offer.

As I already said, the Picasso-IV uses PCI for its expansion capabilities. Do you really think the modules it offers are based on Zorro?

Yes get a Picasso-IV - it was the king of amiga graphics cards in it's day and nobody in their right mind will pretend otherwise.

Alas we are no longer in those days. Why pay a fortune for an old, slow chipset and pay more for equally dated and hard to find expansions for it (all of which are connected via PCI anyway), when you can get a PCI busboard and shove your own choice of cards for sound, video, TV, networking, USB etc., all of which are far more powerful than their Picasso-IV module equivalents into it?

[mikeymike]

According to AmigaWorld magazine, it is better to have a 2-meg video board then a 4-meg video board.  When I find the article, I will post it.   :-D

Damn, my 64MB graphics card must be really holding my system back, I should really upgrade to a Cirrus Logic 5446 2MB card for superior performance!

For 2D use only, there is always going to be an amount of memory which is just plain overkill, but that is relative to what resolutions you're wanting to use.

I'd say 2 - 4MB on a graphics card to do 800x600 effectively (as in, responsive as well) is adequate.  4 - 8MB for 1024x768.  Keep going up like that, approximately, though I have no idea how well an average 8MB graphics card would do with resolutions above 1024x768, I made the jump from 4MB to 16MB with my first PC, and have only used 8MB graphics cards for very short periods of time.

The main factor however to a decent quality display (excluding the monitor) is the graphics chipset.   IMO, not enough attention is paid to display clarity in graphics card reviews.

I had a PCI 2MB Cirrus Logic 5446 once (this is in a PC I'm talking about), IIRC I used it for 800x600x16-bit and it was "ok".  IIRC it didn't like doing decent refresh rates (eg. 75Hz and above).  I upgraded to a Permedia 2-based 4MB PCI card after that, and 1024x768x16bitx72Hz was then "ok" and lower res combinations were decent.

[Hyperspeed]

Phew, I stoked a hornet's nest here!

:-)

The Mediator is an exciting prospect, however it's a bit like a
vulture arriving after the carcass has been eaten.

With no software to take advantage of the 3D of these graphics
card chipsets (even though there are quite a few drivers) we are just
using the car on 1st gear.

At least with Amiga cards you have everything you need to make full
use of everything. At the moment the the Mediator solution is not
better than the CV64 was to the Picasso-IV back in the mid-to-late
nineties.

Integrated harmony with the custom chips is the only way to go for
classic Amiga in my opinion. Fine, the AmigaOne can use PCI - but it
has a dedicated OS to support that with drivers. The AmigaOne doesn't
have 15Khz native capability to take into account.

Never leave a good soldier behind I say.

:-)

[jeffimix]

@Hyperspeed

So you're saying it's better to force march a Picasso IV to its limits with basic 2D displays than to make your Voodoo 3 go on a leisurely walk around the barracks and have it ready and attentive for new apps with 3D work 24/7?

BTW: I'd rather drive a Chevy SSR in first gear than a Model A in third any day.

[Brian]

Ehm... games taking advantage of Warp3D will take advantage of my Voodoo3 card... And even on just 2D it gives lightning fast workbench, which I like.

There's plenty of drivers for the Mediator and more coming. Claiming that there are no drivers for the Amiga PCI market and that's the reason not to go that road is like saying we should not drive cars but walk because there's a short supply of gas stations. (But if I live close to the gasstation aka I can live with the drivers available, why shouldn't I go at full speed?)

Having a Mediator system doesn't knockout all the native modes... I can see those very well through my scandoubler.

Integrated harmony with the custom chips is the only way to go for classic Amiga in my opinion.

Fine it's your oppinion but we are alot of ppl that dissagree with you. I'm not going to try force my oppinion on you, if you're happy with your PIV then fine by me, live in the stoneage. I just dissagree with you and that's my oppinion.

[BoingBoss]

Hi Hyperspeed,

Phew, I stoked a hornet's nest here!

Yea, and I am running away.  I am allergic to bee stings.   :lol:

[Hyperspeed]

Fire in the hold!

:-D :-D :-D :-D