PPC is bad bad bad

[WalkernyRanger]

Sorry, guess I need some more practice with these posts!

[ Edited by WalkernyRanger on 2002/5/3 22:01:42 ]

[catohagen]

>and as for the G3 somehow magically bieng faster because it says motorola on it
>..thats a crock...if any of you went to specbench.org or theregister.co.uk you
>could see the truth about that G3..... G3=inferior to G4=inferior the P4/Athlon
>........simple math.......


Its says IBM on the chip, not Motorola

yeah,

1. take a G3 at 6-700Mhz
2. and a P3 6-700 mhz
3. compare those, let them work

now for more fairness

4. remove all fans of the cpu's (oh....the G3 is fanless)

now....go crunch some RC5 keys, and lets see...

[ShadesOfGrey]

mips_proc wrote:
In my opinon the ONLY way amiga will be able to do anything....i mean "ANYTHING" relavent is to get rid of this idea that PPC is the best thing ever...
As it stands right now! PPC G4's at 1ghz are much much slower then the AMD/Intel offerings wich are also CHEAPER/More generic/Have more apps(thus possible ports)
If amiga intends of bieng PPC proprietary and platform spacific its going to be another lump on the wall to laugh at....

Something you may not realize is that Amiga Inc nor the AmigaOS can possibly compete on the x86 platform at this moment in time.  Remember [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color]?  The only reason [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color] bothered with x86 is not because they saw the x86 as a great opportunity to provide a cheap hardware platform for their users.  No, it was because Apple pulled out of the clone market and there was no open PPC platform to fall back on.

Now, eventually the AmigaOS will appear on the x86 platform.  But this is contingent on there being other platforms around to fall back on.  After all, if like [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color], Amiga fails to penetrate the x86 platform they'll need to have somewhere else to go or die.  M$ is still too dominate in the x86 market and no amount of wishful thinking will change that in the for seeable future.  Especially if the courts (in particular the US courts) continue to give M$ slaps on the wrist.

Now whether you think such a platform should be based on some other processor than PPC (or x86) is a different story.  Whether you think PPC is total crap or has a sketchy future, or whatever.  But x86 right now would be suicide.

BTW, the AmigaOne is not proprietary.  It does have proprietary 'ROM' extensions as a copy protection scheme for AmigaOS 4.  But this does not prevent anyone from running Linux, BSD, QNX, or even NT4 (if you could get the drivers written) on it.

And this in no way is intended as flame bait.

[redrumloa]

I know this isn't true and I'm dying to tell you it isn't true

God I wish you would:-D

[bloodline]

Every one here agree that comparing CPU's using performance at a certain clock  speed is stupid.
You can compare them, and the results are meaningless.

So I think we should compare them Performance per $ (£ or €).

Ok, now which CPU has the best ratio?

It's a sad truth that I have to chose whatever CPU gets the job done fastest for the least amount of money.

And my closing point: It doesn't matter which CPU you use anymore, they are all pretty much identical. Gone are the days when one CPU was better than another, all we have now are CPU optimised for different tasks.
When deciding which CPU to use all you do is select your application (in our case the desktop workstation) and then choose the fastest CPU for the least amount of money.

Oh and before you PPC lot start saying that the PPC is easier to program than the x86, I have one thing to say. They both suck when compared to programming the 68K, from a human (my) point of view. But no one goes near ASM for most programming projects in the modern world so it doesn't matter!!! The C compiler doesn't care. I would also like to poin out that the x86 is MORE efficient when it comes to memory usage as x86 instructions are smaller than PPC ones and the x86 needs less of them to do a perticualr task.

Nice page explaining the G4 and the P4:
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/01q4/p4andg4e2/p4andg4e2-1.html

Better page comparing the Athlon and the G4:
http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/1q00/g4vsk7/g4vsk7-1.html

If you read these pages you will see that the P4 and the Athlon are two different appraches to the same problem, and the the Athlon and the G4 turn out to be so similar it hurts. The only difference is that the Athlon is sigificantly cheaper.

[bloodline]

Something you may not realize is that Amiga Inc nor the AmigaOS can possibly compete on the x86 platform at this moment in time.  Remember [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color]?  The only reason [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color] bothered with x86 is not because they saw the x86 as a great opportunity to provide a cheap hardware platform for their users.  

Be did not have a loyal fan base. It had no user base, it had no software base. It was a great OS, but it tried to move in on M$ market with a better system. It had no chance, until they started to give it way.

No, it was because Apple pulled out of the clone market and there was no open PPC platform to fall back on.

Now, eventually the AmigaOS will appear on the x86 platform.  But this is contingent on there being other platforms around to fall back on.  After all, if like [color=000099]B[/color][color=FF0000]e[/color], Amiga fails to penetrate the x86 platform they'll need to have somewhere else to go or die.  M$ is still too dominate in the x86 market and no amount of wishful thinking will change that in the for seeable future.  Especially if the courts (in particular the US courts) continue to give M$ slaps on the wrist.

Now whether you think such a platform should be based on some other processor than PPC (or x86) is a different story.  Whether you think PPC is total crap or has a sketchy future, or whatever.  But x86 right now would be suicide.

Why would an x86 Amiga be competing against M$ when a PPC based one isn't?
You don't buy a computer plug it in and only then find out what CPU you've just bought!

An x86 Amiga would simply be cheaper than a PPC one at the same specfication. Nothing more nothing less. They would both use the same GFX and sound hardware... just a different processor.

I simply don't understand why so many on this forum seem to think that by using a PPC they magicaly no longer compete with M$, but if they use an x86 Amiga, evil Micros0ft would come along and automatically install windoze on it!!!!

I could see a lot of Linux users getting excited about the idea of a custom Athlon motherboard which couldn't run windoze. In fact if you follow the LinuxBIOS project you will find that it is not hard to do!! Once the IBM-PC BIOS is removed (or simply switched off as Linux and AROS do) the x86 is a great platform.

x86 Amiga = Cheaper, better spec!!!
PPC Amiga = Expensive, lower spec, little support (with uncertain future).

 :-o

[jumpship]

All I want (as a consumer) is a computer that will allow me to do some word prosessing, few spreadsheets, surf the net, and maybe watch a few DVDs, oh an play a few games. I don't need (as most people in the world don't) a 2GHz+ machine.

The other thing I want is a computer that doesn't sound as if it is about to take off by pumping more air through it then a jumbo jets engine.

When Intel/AMD can make me a CPU that doesn't need all that cooling (even at 600MHz an Intel/AMD CPU needs active cooling), I will be happy to buy another of thier products. Hopefully AmigaONE will take off with OS4.0 enough that some people will start to produce/port software and I will be happy. If it falls flat on its face then I will take a long hard look at an Apple. Don't get me wrong, the x86's are good CPUs, but in a home enviroment you don't need something in the corner making enough noise to rivial your vacum cleaner.

[bloodline]

I've just found the definitive page for anyone want to know exactly how bad the modern x86 is!!!!

Click Here

This information is something we should all read!!!

[bloodline]

jumpship wrote:
All I want (as a consumer) is a computer that will allow me to do some word prosessing, few spreadsheets, surf the net, and maybe watch a few DVDs, oh an play a few games. I don't need (as most people in the world don't) a 2GHz+ machine.

The other thing I want is a computer that doesn't sound as if it is about to take off by pumping more air through it then a jumbo jets engine.

When Intel/AMD can make me a CPU that doesn't need all that cooling (even at 600MHz an Intel/AMD CPU needs active cooling), I will be happy to buy another of thier products. Hopefully AmigaONE will take off with OS4.0 enough that some people will start to produce/port software and I will be happy. If it falls flat on its face then I will take a long hard look at an Apple. Don't get me wrong, the x86's are good CPUs, but in a home enviroment you don't need something in the corner making enough noise to rivial your vacum cleaner.

Ok, I take your point on that. But if you want maximum performance you need maximum cooling.

But the Mobile Duron can run without a fan, and it's pin for pin compatible with the Athlon...
The excelent Crusoe is really cold especialy for the performance. A Crusoe based Amiga would have been really brilliant!!!

[Kay]

What's the point really? We've been waiting to migrate to a modern CPU
for ages, and when we finally get close to the goal, a bunch of whiners pops
up to tell us it's the end of the world if we do so. What's the point of
that? What are you trying to achieve? Do you really think AmigaOS4 and
access to new PPC hardware will harm the platform? Of course it won't.

Point one: When I buy a computer, I do it because I want certain
tasks to be done by running computer software. I believe a PPC based Amiga
to be capable of running the software I want very satisfactorily. If
you're in it for the MHz, go buy yourself a bloody radio transmitter.

Point two: There is already a base of PPC based software
for the Amiga. Which I, and probably some others as well,
want to keep using.

Point three: A lot of work has been done already to move towards a
PPC native AmigaOS. Why should we throw that away? So that we
can stay with the 68k a while longer, and then when AmigaOS4 x86
is almost ready, we can start complaining about that, and throw
that work away too?

You want to have x86 hardware? Fine. Be aware that AmigaOS doesn't
run natively on it, though. That's a fact, and no whining about how
poor the PPC processor family is will change it.
 
Kay

I agree, x86 does suck. People today are so spoiled. Who needs fast processors. And you guys all have too much money anyway. I personally buy amigas, because I believe I have too much money, and modern computers are too fast, and I dont deserve such a thing. So while you spoiled people can enjoy your x86 (maybe even x96 by next week), I'll stick with my expensive 030 @ 50 mhz. If i wanted something faster I would get a TI Calculator. Jeez!

its insane ideas like that post right above this one...a person thinking they dont 'deserve' faster speeds....they actually want a slow computer...that make me think the community is getting insane....
the sad part is its litterly true that a 030 is less powerful then a calculator...a good one at least

No you dont understand at all. I never said I wanted a slow computer. I want a lightning fast computer, thats why I chose the amiga. Your x86 is about the speed of lightning*100. That is overkill. Anyone with common sense wouldn't use a computer like that. Name one thing that you can do on your pc, that I cant do on my amiga. JUST ONE.

i can emulate your amiga faster then your amiga run's.....you cant claim to do the same.....
but this isnt an arguement saying classic amigas sucked...
im just saying that your totally insane to think a 030 50mhz cpu is good in this modern day...

i play video games 1600x1200x32bit full screen AA...and gets 60+ FPS in OpenGL.....
I rendering 3d animations and scenes in lightwave that took me months on the amiga in days or even hours..
I have access to 4 channel 16bit audio...as opposed to 8bit on the amiga...
theirs no comparison...
your nuts

Someone please ban this osama bin laden terrorist. Gaming? Why would I want to run around killing people. Im not a terrorist like you. You can go play your 'quack arena tournament of killing', and ill go read a book. Using a computer to run around killing/blowing up people is the sickest thing i have ever heard. Please leave this forum at once, because I for one have a hard time reading your posts after what you just said.

I rest my case....

cough"nutcase'cough