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Author Topic: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?  (Read 10025 times)

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Offline Digiman

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #59 from previous page: March 06, 2012, 12:15:54 AM »
"Effortless superiority via elegant engineering."

Whether it is an A1000 running Marble Madness in 1986 ( no other commercially sold computer or console in the world could run it better, only the Arcade PCB) or an A1200 running Super Stardust AGA (you needed a 10x faster 133mhz Pentium PC costing £1000 MORE to play this game with joysticks)
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2012, 12:23:11 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;682584
but why ask that about amiga? where does it lead? you have to be aware, that it only can be answered on subjective basis and the possible answers are unlimited. especially that this isnt an amiga related question at all. similar questions you might ask about common properties of elements in any relatively large sets. probably you will end up with the "theory of forms" and the relation between ideas and objects. if you solve that "identity" question for all possible sets you will answer the question in this particular case too, but not the other way around..


You could go on a car forum and ask what makes a 3 series what it is, same logic and same huge range of answers from 1978 to 2012 model personal experiences of use/ownership they've had. Same principle here :)

We're here to share our thoughts n feelings.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2012, 01:00:44 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;682597
It's silly to get hung up on the failure of the present to be the future of the past; I'd rather just enjoy the Amiga for its own merits, thanks.

I think I've just about had enough of these thoughts that make my brain hurt.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2012, 01:23:16 AM »
Was that too hard to parse? :D I mean that of course the 2000s didn't turn out how we thought they were going to in the 1990s, but it's silly to get hung up on that fact, because things never happen how we fantasize that they might - just like the 1950s didn't have the automated houses they were predicting in the 1930s, and we don't have flying cars on aerial highways like they thought we might in the '50s, and so on and so forth.

But if you get too caught up in moping about the fact that The Jetsons didn't turn out to be reality, or that the Amiga didn't stay on the bleeding edge of the computer industry, or what have you, you're going to miss the nice things about not only the actual present, but the past that you were hoping would lead to this fantasy future. Hence, I don't hold with persia's opinion that all is vanity simply because the Amiga didn't retain its position forever - nothing ever does, but that doesn't make my A1200 less neat.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2012, 02:10:28 AM »
Actually, I've been expecting this reality ever since Ronald Reagan was president.
You know "trickle down" economics trickling down the backs of all our necks.

And the Jetsons was supposed to be comedic even by '60s sensibilities.

I'm actually surprised that computers have as much utility as they do have. I'm not disappointed, its just not exactly what I predicted (although I was telling everyone in the '80s that it would become "appliance like").
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline klx300r

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2012, 02:26:21 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682527

....
I think what you *really* want to say, however, was something along the lines of "It's all about the API" that I wrote in my comment above. I think this is what you really wanted to say, -Can it run an OS that behaves the Amiga way, has the Amiga strengths and weaknesses, the Amiga ways of doing things, runs the Amiga appliactions, etc, then it's an Amiga. But then you realized that this would also include AROS and MorphOS in the philosophical definition of what Amiga is, and because of that, you also choose to combine it with the Trade Mark definition, in order to exclude the others. "Only AmigaOS(TM) is Amiga". I'm not surprised with that, coming from you, but it's sad to this kind of apartheid mentality everytime it shows...

:(


actually you are correct in that the 'spirit' of Amiga can be proudly seen in both AROS and MorphOS and I have never said anything negative about either.

What I will always comment on is when certain 'people' choose to openly participate in spreading FUD in every single OS4.x thread:mad: when you see me doing the same on MorphOS threads then you can justly make the claims you stated about me
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2012, 02:51:04 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;682633
And the Jetsons was supposed to be comedic even by '60s sensibilities.
Yeah, but it really isn't that far removed from some of the predictions you'd see in old issues of Popular Mechanics...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2012, 02:54:34 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;682637
Yeah, but it really isn't that far removed from some of the predictions you'd see in old issues of Popular Mechanics...

Or World's Fair exhibits for that matter.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2012, 04:15:25 AM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;682448
I'll tell you what makes an Amiga in my books...

a few months ago, I was going to show Mr Beanbag to a friend's 13 year old daughter.  I was clicking through windows on the workbench.

Her: what kind of computer is this?
Me: Amiga 1200
Her: What is that, how old is it?
Me: *points at (c) Commodore 1992 at top of Workbench Screen*
Her: How come it's so fast?

LOL.

Reminds of my what my son said when he saw me boot up my A4000 CSII 68060:

"How come they don't make computers like this anymore?"

Amiga is many things to many people.  To me its a computer that puts the user in control and is efficient and elegant..
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2012, 05:54:46 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;682637
Yeah, but it really isn't that far removed from some of the predictions you'd see in old issues of Popular Mechanics...


And that's why reality sucks.

I remember growing up, reading books about all the cool stuff from the US and Soviet space programs, and being convinced that when I was an adult, we'd have people living on the moon.


And now, we can barely punt a monkey into orbit.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2012, 06:12:01 AM »
Yes, but you don't want to get so focused on that that you lose sight of the things about reality that rock. We don't have moon colonies, but we do have the Amiga, and I'll place Lemmings at least on par with a moon colony.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline agami

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2012, 01:00:44 PM »
Adhering to the inescapable heritage of humanity, and in many ways powerless against the line of ancestors preceding, we have cycled over this ground countless times, criss crossed hither and yonder summing not too high to count, but rather lost the count too many times, in memories receding. Deja Vu abound we approach moments both heralded and unexpected with a sense of wonderment and at the same time with an undeniable feeling of the familiar, we love and hate in the same instance, polarised and paralysed, transfixed and untethered, empowered and humbled. It's not the moment you get your first bicycle, or the moment the training wheels are removed, nor the first time the steadying hand relents letting you glide alone, but rather the lack of a single moment when something cognitive and calculated submits to the intuitive and innate, when riding a bike is not about maintaining balance and the pedalling rate, but about the adventures you choose and the paths you may roam.

Moments pass, and at our discretion are moved to memory, short term fibs, long term quibbles, the dots connected, accepted or rejected, stretched or squeezed, polished or teased, take only what fits and the rest is neglected. Reason is simple, we're all but the same, it's all for the story, the creating and telling, the fame and the glory, who we are by the things that we do. Destinations aside, it's the journey we take. A novel's single random page may compel, though chances are it won't clue you in, not like reading it to the end all the way from the beginning. Shoe box full of pictures to a stranger is just that, a jumble of moments, formless and flat. Not that it matters, those moments are yours, divided from context, bereft of emotion, that which makes them spring to life, recalling comforting scents, heartwarming sounds, and making one pause.

Inadvertently we strive to impart our story, the restless memes toward an agreeable host. Animated and exuberant, or quiet and reserved, we intonate every word with care and patience, paying attention to the cadence, the ebbs and flows, the highs and the lows, pacing it just right. Too fast, and they're left behind, too slow, and they wander off in their mind. Just right, and they relish and savour every word, every image, every sound. To travel away they needn't ride a horse, a camel, or mule, they needn't catch bus, a cab, or a train, nor board a ship or get on a plane, with eyes closed they are transplanted away, from their world into another's, returning but wishing to stay, and like precocious little eight year olds with glee they say "Again! Tell it again!"

Greatness; inbred, sought, or imposed, in the end it's still that. The anchor point in the imagination of all hominids since. Ouroboros marked, one born of the other to birth the bearer anew, we need the stories of heroes, fables of their conquests, accounts of their trials, how they've met their ends, and how end made beginnings give us something to do. Our imaginations surge and our spirits soar, by the deeds of our predecessors we are emboldened to act, by the words brought forth from bold acts we are honoured to carry the flame. We will win where they failed, we will fail away from the prise, and our failings will be there to be won by those that carry on in our name. And we will sleep soundly, smiling with the secret of the brave few that imagined clearly, spoke freely, moulded and kneaded, stoked and kilned, and bore their dreams for the rest. For in those moments, that shaped that chapter, we were great.

Anachronism chased made many puffed chests. With so much gained so much was also lost, by hubris not seen, and by painting a new scene, none could see at what cost. Confidence so easily becomes complacence, turning and turning, brewing and churning, seeding greed and reaping foul, the sin, the crime, is all of ours. And where forests burned come trees anew, not quite the same, not the ones we knew. The leaves and trunks, branches and roots, the rustling sounds, and the twinkling lights, it all looks good but just doesn't feel right. Different animals have made here a home, flourishing and thriving, beautiful and inspiring, to think that once we sat upon that thrown.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2012, 01:48:42 PM »
Quote from: agami;682924
Adhering to the inescapable heritage of humanity, and in many ways powerless against the line of ancestors preceding, we have cycled over this ground countless times, criss crossed hither and yonder summing not too high to count, but rather lost the count too many times, in memories receding. Deja Vu abound we approach moments both heralded and unexpected with a sense of wonderment and at the same time with an undeniable feeling of the familiar, we love and hate in the same instance, polarised and paralysed, transfixed and untethered, empowered and humbled. It's not the moment you get your first bicycle, or the moment the training wheels are removed, nor the first time the steadying hand relents letting you glide alone, but rather the lack of a single moment when something cognitive and calculated submits to the intuitive and innate, when riding a bike is not about maintaining balance and the pedalling rate, but about the adventures you choose and the paths you may roam.

Moments pass, and at our discretion are moved to memory, short term fibs, long term quibbles, the dots connected, accepted or rejected, stretched or squeezed, polished or teased, take only what fits and the rest is neglected. Reason is simple, we're all but the same, it's all for the story, the creating and telling, the fame and the glory, who we are by the things that we do. Destinations aside, it's the journey we take. A novel's single random page may compel, though chances are it won't clue you in, not like reading it to the end all the way from the beginning. Shoe box full of pictures to a stranger is just that, a jumble of moments, formless and flat. Not that it matters, those moments are yours, divided from context, bereft of emotion, that which makes them spring to life, recalling comforting scents, heartwarming sounds, and making one pause.

Inadvertently we strive to impart our story, the restless memes toward an agreeable host. Animated and exuberant, or quiet and reserved, we intonate every word with care and patience, paying attention to the cadence, the ebbs and flows, the highs and the lows, pacing it just right. Too fast, and they're left behind, too slow, and they wander off in their mind. Just right, and they relish and savour every word, every image, every sound. To travel away they needn't ride a horse, a camel, or mule, they needn't catch bus, a cab, or a train, nor board a ship or get on a plane, with eyes closed they are transplanted away, from their world into another's, returning but wishing to stay, and like precocious little eight year olds with glee they say "Again! Tell it again!"

Greatness; inbred, sought, or imposed, in the end it's still that. The anchor point in the imagination of all hominids since. Ouroboros marked, one born of the other to birth the bearer anew, we need the stories of heroes, fables of their conquests, accounts of their trials, how they've met their ends, and how end made beginnings give us something to do. Our imaginations surge and our spirits soar, by the deeds of our predecessors we are emboldened to act, by the words brought forth from bold acts we are honoured to carry the flame. We will win where they failed, we will fail away from the prise, and our failings will be there to be won by those that carry on in our name. And we will sleep soundly, smiling with the secret of the brave few that imagined clearly, spoke freely, moulded and kneaded, stoked and kilned, and bore their dreams for the rest. For in those moments, that shaped that chapter, we were great.

Anachronism chased made many puffed chests. With so much gained so much was also lost, by hubris not seen, and by painting a new scene, none could see at what cost. Confidence so easily becomes complacence, turning and turning, brewing and churning, seeding greed and reaping foul, the sin, the crime, is all of ours. And where forests burned come trees anew, not quite the same, not the ones we knew. The leaves and trunks, branches and roots, the rustling sounds, and the twinkling lights, it all looks good but just doesn't feel right. Different animals have made here a home, flourishing and thriving, beautiful and inspiring, to think that once we sat upon that thrown.
I would have said plastic and metal... But your answer's good too..

Offline Bamiga2002

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2012, 04:30:43 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;682926
I would have said plastic and metal... But your answer's good too..

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Offline nbarnes

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Re: Deep philosophical question: What makes an Amiga an Amiga?
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2012, 06:06:28 PM »
Yesterday, the Amiga was a special machine that allowed you to see the future.
Today, it is a special machine that allows you to see the past...
Are we there yet?