AmigaOS 4XX - MorphOS etc

[eliyahu]

You still making too much noise, making people move on from the larger amiga-community

as a (until recently) outsider, i'd have to agree. i considered morphOS in the beginning due to the low cost of entry, but the biggest turn-off -- by far -- was the community. the way certain morphOS users, and at least one developer, behaved on the forums was a huge negative. i've since used morphOS in the flesh a few times, and, while very performant, just wasn't enjoyable to use (for me). but people need to try it and make up their own minds.

the best approach is the one taken by amigadave: sane, rational, understanding, and helpful.  morphOS isn't my cup of tea for any number of reasons, but it's a perfectly good choice for folks entering and/or returning to the amiga world and i still have an interest in it. if the OP was in the northeastern US, i would have been happy to travel and allow him to play on my SAM and on my old power G4 (which still has MOS 2.7 installed on it) so he could check out amigaOS and morphOS and make up his own mind.  both are excellent choices.

-- eliyahu

[takemehomegrandma]

You keep saying this, but lets look at things objectively then:

* The MorphOS community is way less active than the AmigaOS 4.x community

* There aren't more MorphOS users than AmigaOS 4.x users

* AmigaOS 4.x actually being AmigaOS, MorphOS is unknown

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make in the context of this thread. Seems a bit off topic, hence almost inflammatory. Anyway, it could very well be that the MorphOS community could be smaller than the OS4 community. I don't have any exact numbers, but the poll suggests they are about the same size (at least on this site), and that they even together is half the size of the real Amiga (that is: the classic in various shapes and forms). But for such a small platform, I must say it seems that MorphOS has its fair share of competent and active developers, making *real* Amiga applications and not just Linux recompiles for an .so environment. And no, MorphOS isn't really unknown. Sure it's small, limited niche OS, but so is OS4. And in the big world, outside this (and "your") forum, Amiga can hardly be categorized as a well-known system/brand in 2011. Two decades of water under the bridges has played its course.

I have a bonus one for you as well:

* You still making too much noise, making people move on from the larger amiga-community

There has always been a lot of noise (from many entities, including Hyperion and its followers), but *noise* isn't what making people moving away from the larger Amiga community. The lack of an obvious and sustainable future and road-map post PPC is (no sign of long term), the lack of progress is (no sign of mid-term), the lack of realistic products is (no sign of short-term). And no - a €2,500 computer with 2007 level laptop performance running an OS of OS4.1.3's quality is no solution. It could even have made it worse or hastened the process, by making the above more obvious and very difficult to miss.

The retro fans shouldn't care though!

BTW, I just love your rhetorics when you're upset... Love it!

While glad of being of amusement to you, I must tell you that I'm not really upset at all, rather the opposite, I'm in a very good mood!

[takemehomegrandma]

@takemehomegrandma

There are both objective and subjective elements here, and much as you would like to, you cannot rule out the subjective side of it.

Of course not, and I don't!

Nobody's arguing with the objective merits of MorphOS

Yes, by saying that "when it comes down to it it's entirely subjective".

It isn't.

That's my whole point!

but some people prefer the feel of OS4 which is why you shouldn't try to rule it out for new users.

I think it would be wrong to "indoctrinate" new users in the brand-religion mentality that is finally beginning to soften up. Suppressing objective arguments and comparisons in favor of highly subjective ones will do just that.

If you want to highlight OS4's merits, do so by using objective comparisons and arguments. Like how cheap and easy it is (pun intended, since this (in comparison to OS4) is another one of MorphOS's benefits) for a new user to try it out in order to see if it really is anything for them.

And, if you're going to stick purely to objective reasoning, as someone else asked, why are you using MorphOS when you could just use Windows? Objectively speaking, Windows kicks the living daylights out of MorphOS and OS4 combined on pretty much every metric you listed.

I carefully avoided replying to a similar question above, because it's off topic and irrelevant in this context. We are talking about OS4 and MorphOS (not even AROS really). But OK, to answer your question - *I DO* use Windows. In fact, I'm typing this on a Win7 box. I also run Ubuntu on two machines of mine. But none of them are the best Amiga NG solution! That's why I use MorphOS!

To bring up the obligatory car analogy

I generally only replies to "Cola" analogies...

lots of people think I'm nuts for driving the car I drive.

Then you probably are!

:pint:

[Duce]

Takemehomegrandma, you're the worst liability the "blue camp" has ever had.  MAN, I hope you have no official ties to MorphOS...

While the people behind MOS bust their asses making a better product, you just spout rhetoric and "facts" to try and sway people to the "one true calling".  It's horse**** in this day and age, dividing the camps like this.

3 people on A.org have told me so far they have avoided MOS entirely due to your Dammy-like antics.  Feel good to know you are costing them sales, lol?


MOS is a great product.  Let it speak for itself without the trolling.  I've seen Jehovah's Witnesses easier to deal with than you are.

To those looking at a NG Amiga:  MOS is great, and the low cost of HW and demo version of the OS is just super.  OS4 fans:  I use it myself, and enjoy it.  Explore your options and don't listen to the clownshow.

[Zerohero]

@takemehomegrandma

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make in the context of this thread. Seems a bit off topic, hence almost inflammatory. Anyway, it could very well be that the MorphOS community could be smaller than the OS4 community. I don't have any exact numbers, but the poll suggests they are about the same size (at least on this site), and that they even together is half the size of the real Amiga (that is: the classic in various shapes and forms). But for such a small platform, I must say it seems that MorphOS has its fair share of competent and active developers, making *real* Amiga applications and not just Linux recompiles for an .so environment. And no, MorphOS isn't really unknown. Sure it's small, limited niche OS, but so is OS4. And in the big world, outside this (and "your") forum, Amiga can hardly be categorized as a well-known system/brand in 2011. Two decades of water under the bridges has played its course.

No, those are objective truths, exactly what you wanted. What you bring up in response just shows your own ignorance on the matter. Of course my post was inflammatory, you didn't agree with it, yet I didn't call anyone bandits? Funny that.

About size, my point was that despite MorphOS being:

MorphOS *is* faster, it *does* have all the preferred by most and most widely spread Amiga standards integrated and in modern versions, it *does* have a much lower system cost, it *does* run on easily obtainable mainstream hardware with totally OK bang/buck ratio, it *does* have the best Amiga compatibility, it *does* have the most and the best features as a whole – the desktop, the shell, 3D, JIT, etc, etc.

It does still not have a bigger userbase than the clearly inferior AmigaOS 4.x. What does that tell you? Yet you go on with this - "There are actually no technological, no economical, no rational reasons whatsoever to use OS4 instead of MorphOS." - Are you really serious? No one choses AmigaOS 4.x, MorphOS or AROS based on technical merit. No one. There's an emotional bond to it. Something your own posts clearly show, yet you're trying to argue that is not the case. Then you have the stomach to chose when it is allowed to be subjective or objective, all depending on what suits you?

Real Amiga applications? How long since you tried AmigaOS 4.x? I tried MorphOS once in 2005, I crashed it after 5 seconds. Obviously MorphOS still suck, right? And again, this is a subjective view, is it not?

MorphOS is unknown, AmigaOS is not. While AmigaOS 4.x might be a niche market, it is still AmigaOS, hence well known. An objective comparison between the two would not be fair at all. Asking people if they know AmigaOS and then if they know MorphOS would be terribly one sided, I imagine.

Yes, a lot of water under the bridge, yet the same old arguments. Things change, you know, yet you keep ignoring this.

There has always been a lot of noise (from many entities, including Hyperion and its followers), but *noise* isn't what making people moving away from the larger Amiga community. The lack of an obvious and sustainable future and road-map post PPC is (no sign of long term), the lack of progress is (no sign of mid-term), the lack of realistic products is (no sign of short-term). And no - a €2,500 computer with 2007 level laptop performance running an OS of OS4.1.3's quality is no solution. It could even have made it worse or hastened the process, by making the above more obvious and very difficult to miss.

This is just brilliant, you've just made all your arguments for chosing MorphOS instead of AmigaOS 4.x invalid, because with this said we should all move on to x86. So with this last paragraph in mind, do you agree on that objectivity does not matter much when chosing your Amiga-like operating system? And in doing so acknowledge that you're jumping between objective and subjective truths as it suits you?

Regards,
Joachim Birging

[takemehomegrandma]

That's odd that on one hand you believe in objective vs subjective when comparing the operating systems, but when it comes to a court decision, which would be likely called factually objective by said court, you take the reverse stand and go with your *subjective* feelings. You don't see the basis of how you form your opinions as being contrary?

I'm sorry if I have lead you to believe that I would think the settlement between Amiga Inc and Hyperion would be fake/not real or whatever. I don't, I'm pretty convinced it's there alright.

Why I put it among my "subjective" reasons to why I use MorphOS instead of OS4, is because I don't *feel* (a subjective thing) that this is of any importance to me. And the "I even don't agree with that" (also a subjective thing) comes from the way Hyperion reached this so called "agreement". I feel that it wasn't really an agreement in its true sense, more like a situation where Hyperion said to the rightful Amiga IP owner: "If you don't give me this, I'll kill you". Amiga Inc "agreed" to granting Hyperion their current rights in the same way as a lonely woman in a dark park agrees to having sex with a man with a knife and a mask on his face in exchange for her continued life on this planet. A true, sound agreement is where *both* parties walks away smiling after closing it. I don't think Amiga Inc's owner smiled when he walked away.

The thing becomes even more ironic when you look back on what Ben Hermans (of Hyperion) said in his lie-campaign about MorphOS some years ago:

(Just replace "the MorphOS team" with "Hyperion", and it will be really funny)

"The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims"

After this, the same man "took his walk in the park" to get what he felt he was entitled to.

So no, I don't *feel* OS4 to be truly official by grant from the IP owner. I know that it is, objectively speaking. But I do hope it's only temporary, until Amiga (current or future owners) can find a way to correct this by putting things right again. And I do think they want to. Don't you?