AmigaOS 4XX - MorphOS etc

[amigadave]

I was born around '75, and grew up in the microComputer scene...However, I never had the money for an AMIGA, but always drooled over them when I was growing up..so suffice to say, I'm new to the CURRENT amiga scene, but have been reading...so go easy on me.  I have investigated several options:

I graduated from High School the year before you were born, so I was a lot older than you when the Amiga first appeared, but I did not buy one until late 1986, or early 1987, can't remember exactly when.

1.  Buying a Mac Mini G4 1.42Ghz with a 1 GB ram, and putting morph OS on it

G4 Mac Mini's are usually more expensive than buying a G4 eMac that has about the same performance and comes with a monitor, but they are ungodly heavy and can cost more to ship them then the price to purchase them.  But if you can find one locally for free, or for very little money, they are a good choice to run MorphOS on.  Specially the 1.42GHz model, which I think comes with 64mb of VRAM (might be wrong on that spec though).  Only the 1.5GHz G4 Mac Mini comes with 64mb of VRAM, the rest have only 32mb VRAM, which might cause some problems if you are using enhanced display modes and large high resolution monitors.  Another cheap choice of G4 Mac hardware is the slower G4 PowerMacs, like the 500MHz to 867MHz, or even 1.0GHz models.  You might need to replace the video card with a Radeon 9000Pro which are easy to find for the Mac, or one of the other supported video cards, as the original video cards in most of the early G4 PowerMacs are not supported.  I got my dual 1.25GHz G4 MDD PowerMac for less than $50 and no shipping or tax and I just saw a dual 1.0GHz G4 MDD PowerMac get sold on eBay today for 0.99 cents plus shipping, but the shipping was $75.  It appears that most supported G4 eMacs and PowerMacs on eBay are selling for around $100 when you include the shipping, but if you keep your eyes open, and look around your local area at thrift shops, recycled computer stores, or garage & yard sales, you can probably find a G4 PowerMac like I did for less than $50.

2.  Buying a SAM440EX based board and building my own, and installing AmigaOS 4.1 (seems nice, but an expensive endever)  I thought I would install Morph OS first...but not sure if its the experiance I'm looking for.

Some people like OS4 best and others like MorphOS2.7 best, it is all very subjective.  The nice thing about MorphOS is that you can usually find the hardware to run it very cheap, or maybe even free, or you can possibly borrow someone's compatible G4 Mac system and you can download and install MorphOS2.7, and run it for free 30 minutes at a time between re-boots to see if you like it.  If it does not fit your needs, or you don't like it for any reason, you can usually sell the hardware for the same amount you paid for it, or more if you were careful when you purchased, so you are not out any money, or very little.  OS4 on the other hand must be purchased, there is no free version to try out, so I suggest that you find someone that has it running on the same hardware that you are thinking of buying to run it on, and test it out at their house to see if you like it.  Most OS4 users would be happy to invite you over to show you OS4 running and let you play with it for as long as you like to see if it is what you want.  Just ask around here and other sites, until you find an OS4 user that lives close to you, or close to some place that you have always wanted to visit.  That way you won't be disappointed after you buy what ever system you decide to get, because you will already know what you are getting in advance.

One last point of note, I recently installed WinUAE, and did what I consider to be a RAW install of OS 3.9.  I'm doing that to bring myself up to speed on the OS.  So my questions are:

A.  Which route above do you think is the better one for the true amiga experiance (I know I'm going to have people telling me to buy an Amiga 1200, put an accelertor card in it, and go from there, but I', not sure I have the money for that.)  I loved the Dan Wood videos on youtube He has them all

It sound like you want a Next Gen Amiga system, and not just a Classic Amiga experience.  There is no one answer for which one is more of a "True Amiga experience", as both sides will tell you that they think their choice is more like what the true experience would be if Commodore was still in business today.  Those arguments can get very heated in a short period of time and are pointless.  Only you can decide what is a "True Amiga Experience" for yourself.

B.  Don't lynch me on this one, if its been asked over and over again, I googled it, and couldn;t find the answer.  Can I run AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 CLASSIC on WinUAE?  I know I can run OS3.9, so I was wondering what the stretch was...

Thanks in adavance for helping a OLD newcomer out.

This question has been answered already by a couple of people.  It is NO.

Welcome back to Amigaland and personally I hope you will choose both (or all three, as you have not mentioned AROS, which is another valid choice of Next Generation Amiga systems) and enjoy all there is to experience in the Amiga community.

(warning:  DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!)

[techlord]

Thanks for your words of wisdom and encouragement AmigaDave and others, (I like the powermac idea as well, I was thinking about this too).  
I'm pretty excited about the prospect of the X1000 and It indeed would be nice to find an AmigaOS4.XX user running the OS on a modern sam board or the likes, but Alas, I live in a Northern community in Canada, and not many people up here, even recognize the word Amiga anymore  

I wish there was a club  close to where I live.  I have seen some other Canadians around the forums, but have no idea where they are, I am guessing a larger city...but who knows...maybe I'll run into someone not too far away.  One last note, AmigaDave, the word obsession for me is an understatement, and if I get really obsessed with this endeavor,  it's not outside of the realm of possibility that I will end up with Classic, and current hardware  Although, my wife may never forgive me

[fishy_fiz]

@techlord

General rule of thumb, those that spout mostly negative, off topic stuff in a thread like this arent worth listening to and are only in it to try to cause troubles (sad gits, but such is life). Im sure even someone new though can see the genuine responses vs. those trying to instigate trouble (you watch, those same people will now try to justify themselves on the back of me mentioning this (although Ive only said this to stop them doing thier usual nonsense) .

In regards to the actual questions it depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to play old amiga games and whatnot then AROS may actually be something worth trying as its version of uae is orders of magnitude times faster than that for os4 or mos. Having said that though, if youre content to use windows, then winuae is pretty much the ultimate amiga emulator.

Personally I'd probably try that 1st, learn the system, find what software you like and what you feel is missing. After that perhaps try out AROS (which runs on standard pc hardware and is free/open source, so its not gonna cost you a penny) and see if a dedicated "amiga" system is for you. It is the rawest of the NG Amiga derived systems, but should give you a feel for whether an amiga based system is for you, at which point you could then go on to spend more money if you want mos or os4 (or stick with aros if you enjoy it). While it (AROS) is the rawest of the 3, it does have some of it own advantages. Cheap, most powerful hardware by a long shot (only amiga derived system to be able to play 1080p video for example), best hardware support, best 3d subsystem (you watch a few particular mos people claim that its unstable now though (which is a crock, most of the negativity comes from those that dont like the fact other options are superior in some ways)) and the fact its x86 means that there's often codepaths in software that make the end product far faster (uae and dosbox come to mind).

This isnt to say AROS is the best choice, that's all down to the individual, but for someone not wanting to invest much money while they get a feel for the amiga it's a good place to look. The main reason Ive elaborated is becuase unfortunately this community is for the most part insecure and there's a lot of people that will stick up for thier system of choice and badmouth others even when its not warranted. I just thought Id give you the true lowdown on AROS before one of a few usual suspects twist and contort th truth for thier own fragile egos. They probably still will, but at least now youve been warned and will know what to, and not to listen to.

[Argo]

Play around with UAE for now and get your bearings.  Take a look at AROS and all it's distributions. Maybe even setup an AROS box. Could even do that in Virtual Box or Virtual PC, instead of a physical computer.
Wait around till mid 2012 or so for the much cheaper Amiga OS4 laptops.

Enjoy! and Welcome to AO!

[amigadave]

Thanks for your words of wisdom and encouragement AmigaDave and others, (I like the powermac idea as well, I was thinking about this too).  
I'm pretty excited about the prospect of the X1000 and It indeed would be nice to find an AmigaOS4.XX user running the OS on a modern sam board or the likes, but Alas, I live in a Northern community in Canada, and not many people up here, even recognize the word Amiga anymore  

I wish there was a club  close to where I live.  I have seen some other Canadians around the forums, but have no idea where they are, I am guessing a larger city...but who knows...maybe I'll run into someone not too far away.  One last note, AmigaDave, the word obsession for me is an understatement, and if I get really obsessed with this endeavor,  it's not outside of the realm of possibility that I will end up with Classic, and current hardware  Although, my wife may never forgive me

The lead programmer for OS4 lives in Canada, but it is a big country, so you may be hundreds or thousands of miles (or kilometers) apart.  Try to find out where Steve Solie lives in relation to where you live.

Take my advice and try out all of the flavors of the Amiga experience before you make up your mind on any one of them.  If you can't actually get a chance to sample all of them, ask lots of questions and view as many YouTube videos as you can before you spend any money on any of them.

Who would have thought we would have so many different choices compared to 5 years ago.

[mousehouse]

To me personally a lot of joy comes from physically playing with the old hardware.... the feel of the keys and working with it... i don't know, but UAE just doesn't do it for me as a real-Amiga-replacement.

I'd say that even with a limited budget a nice A1200 is within financial reach. Just the stock machine with a small HD or CompactFlash adapter will give you a great start again in Amiga world. You can later add an accelerator and VGA scan doubler and still spend less than a good smartphone costs these days ;-)

[OlafS3]

if you have the 3.5, 3.9 or Amigaforever-CD you can easily install Amikit. http://amikit.amiga.sk/

it is a huge distribution based on 3.X and the main distribution for Natami. I am preparing a big update http://www.natami-news.de/html/amikit.html that can be easy installed with Grunch (a new Package-Manager, in preparation). This could be a alternative to buy expensive PPC-Hardware. The Natami could be a alternative hardware too. Infos: http://www.natami.net/news.htm

[persia]

There are those who're classic purists.  On any system other than a 68K based Amiga you are running an emulator to run classic software.  Morphos,AROS, OS 4.1 all use UAE to run classic software.  Minimig comes closest in that it's emulating the custom chips in firmware.

As a previous poster said, there's still a fair number of classic Amigas that find their way into op shops and markets that you can pick up for almost nothing.  Ebay on a good day will get you a functional system at a somewhat reasonable price, but on a bad day will generate some astronomical prices.  EBay is generally a seller's market.  

You might also want to place an ad looking for Amigas in Craigslist.  I know people who've gotten most any model that way, often for little more than the price of the petrol to pick it up.

[takemehomegrandma]

Basically, both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 are "next-gen" Amiga-like experiences, but when it comes down to it it's entirely subjective.

Of course emotions and other subjective, irrational things can also affect your choice, but MorphOS...

...is faster...
...has the latest versions of the best Amiga standards integrated (like CGX, Poseidon, MUI4, etc)...
...has more and better features...
...is more Amiga (classic) compatible...
...is ahelluvalot cheaper (looking at total system cost)...
...runs on (albeit second hand but still) easily obtainable, high quality, mainstream hardware...

...and there is really nothing subjective about that, only pure, measurable facts.

[Akiko]

I think Digiman is just attempting to out troll Jorkany & Talemehomegrandma. It takes some effort to pull that off and still appear serious.

It would be no easy accomplishment, both have accrued at least 20 solid trolling years between them.

[takemehomegrandma]

It would be no easy accomplishment, both have accrued at least 20 solid trolling years between them.

And funnily enough, this comment of yours was probably the most rude, off topic and pointless post in the thread...

:rolleyes:

[eliyahu]

And funnily enough, this comment of yours was probably the most rude, off topic and pointless post in the thread...

:rolleyes:

well, what it lacked in tact, it made up for in accuracy.

-- eliyahu

[redfox]

@techlord

I live in Edmonton, Alberta.  Steve Solie lives in southern Alberta near Calgary.

I am a merely a user, but I have done a few demos of OS4 at the local Amiga club in the Edmonton area.  Great bunch of guys who have mostly moved away Amiga stuff, but we have lots of fun with many different operating systems and programs.

---
redfox

[redfox]

@techlord

Unfortunately, you cannot run AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 CLASSIC on WinUAE.  You must have an A1200 with a PPC accelerator or A3000 with a PPC accelerator or A4000 with a PPC accelerator.

There is no demo version of OS4.  You have to have the correct hardware already or purchase a system bundled with OS4.

The price of entry for a new OS4 system is quite high compared to the other options.  SAM460 is less expensive than the new AmigaOne X1000.

There are some used systems available.  IMHO, SAM440 and SAM440 Flex are good choices for the used market.  Apparently, Pegasos II systems are also a good choice.  I would stay clear of the older AmigaOne systems and MicroA1 systems, unless you can see the system in action before you purchase (most of these systems are more than five years old).

If you are interested in games, an A500 or A1200 might be a good way to get started.

Sounds like you already know about WinUAE.  Amiga Forever is another choice for x86 systems.

Lots of other people have already recommended MorphOS systems.

---
redfox

[takemehomegrandma]

Basically, both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 are "next-gen" Amiga-like experiences, but when it comes down to it it's entirely subjective.

WHY was my reply to this comment, made yesterday, mysteriously removed???

It was not in breach of *any* terms of service or "netiquette", it was merely a short list of *objective* reasons that could (or even should) affect ones choice, made as a counterclaim to the above "it's entirely subjective", and the post was polite its tone.

Is Amiga.org turning into what AW.net was a decade ago, where threads get locked/removed, posts disappear etc in a subjective manner in order to favor a certain group of people's economical interests?

[spirantho]

WHY was my reply to this comment, made yesterday, mysteriously removed???

It was not in breach of *any* terms of service or "netiquette", it was merely a short list of *objective* reasons that could (or even should) affect ones choice, made as a counterclaim to the above "it's entirely subjective", and the post was polite its tone.

Is Amiga.org turning into what AW.net was a decade ago, where threads get locked/removed, posts disappear etc in a subjective manner in order to favor a certain group of people's economical interests?

While I have no idea what you wrote, I stand completely by its being subjective.

To some people, MS-DOS is better than Windows 7, yet on paper Windows 7 is clearly superior.

Horses for courses, and all that.

It is subjective, and the very fact that I prefer using AmigaOS and you prefer using MorphOS is proof of that (and I have a Peg II which dualboots).