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Offline orgamsatron

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #29 from previous page: August 11, 2003, 06:45:33 PM »
Quote

carls wrote:
@orgamsatron
But that's my whole point...
If I want to impress my friends with my computer I could buy a GF FX and download one of nVidia's own demos designed particularly for that hardware.

If I want a demo group to impress me with their skills, they'll have to do better than "Your 64MB AGPx4 graphics card is too slow" ;-)


And like I said, stick to older demos.  Simple.  Today's newer demos need programmable shaders, which requires both the hardware and a fast CPU to run the realtime interpreter.

The other thing you might try is update drivers, turn off anisotropic (this gives a big framerate hit), turn of antialiasing, etc..

Try these for your card:
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2002/assembly02/demo/32_degrees_in_the_shade_by_yodel.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2002/buenzli02/demo/orion-amour-party-release.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2001/vip3/demo/x%2Brr%2Bf_couloir14.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2002/assembly02/demo/clone_by_critical_mass.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/demos/groups/haujobb/hjb_elef.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2001/remedy01/demo/accel/flt_ettv_final.zip
http://www.idf.net/gods/demos/gds-ifut.zip
http://www.idf.net/gods/demos/gds-toys.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/1999/theparty99/demo/accel/e_kasp21.zip
http://www.digital-murder.org/download/just_a_touch_of_funk_fixed.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2001/theparty01/demo/medium.zip
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2000/takeover00/demo/vip2.zip

You also haven't said what your CPU might be.  Don't forget, these things are running overtop Windows, which has a HUGE overhead.  (Surely as an Amiga user you must know this...)

There's plenty of impressive stuff for your card, just search a little harder.  Just don't expect to run Raw Confessions or anything similar.
 

Offline aMIGA_dUDE

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2003, 10:30:21 AM »
If you would like to be able to make an very respectiable demo for the PC well moppi is good tool as demo maker.

http://moppi.inside.org/demopaja/
 

Offline Mike_Amiga

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2003, 10:39:49 AM »
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by -D- on 2003/8/10 23:14:04

I feel your pain, carls. Recently I downloaded
quite a few mac demos, preparing to be blown
away...and considering the hardware difference
between my old '060/AGA, I was not very
impressed. Ear - bleeding 1980's sounding glam
rock music, choppy animations, crap effects...?


I wasn't very Impressed by any of the OS X demo's cos I couldn't get them to work... Where's the double click easy access gone since OS 9 demos? Not that they were worth seeing! :-o
AKA ED-209 on IRC...
 

Offline amigamad

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2003, 02:48:08 PM »
Quote
I got a GF2 MX for my parents' machine, and the MX model doesn't appear to have the MPEG-2


my geoforce mx had mpeg2 decoder and that was only a cheap made card.
I once had an amigaone xe but sold it .

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Offline mikeymike

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2003, 02:57:01 PM »
"GeForce" :-)

Hmm, it could be that the mobo in my parents' machine is just plain evil.

 

Offline amigamad

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2003, 03:09:12 PM »
some very smart demos did not know the pc was so good for these. :-)
I once had an amigaone xe but sold it .

http://www.tamiyaclub.com
 

Offline carlsTopic starter

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2003, 11:12:57 AM »
@orgamsatron

My CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2200+ which I think should be enough for most demos.

I don't think you get my point, though. To me, demos are supposed to look awesome even on slower hardware - compare for example The Castle, Little Nell or Relic running on AGA and a 50MHz 060 and a demo that requires a 2.2GHz P4 and a GF4 Ti4200. Of course the PC demo should be fast! Where did optimization go?
Amiga: Too weird to live, too rare to die.
 

Offline AdMartin

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2003, 01:29:23 PM »
@carls

I agree, demos should be optimised. The Product is a good example of that. It's tiny in size and worked fine when I had my old Celeron 266 + TNT2 M64 setup. I haven't seen any demo that, IMO, tops it.

/Martin
 

Offline amigamad

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2003, 03:35:38 PM »
Quote
GeForce


Thanks for the corection i have always caled them geoforce not sure why though and i wont be again. :-)
I once had an amigaone xe but sold it .

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Offline jeffimix

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2003, 03:53:26 PM »
/me is saddened

Everyone is mocking my FeForce 2 MX :(    It's got 32Megabytes though! And 4X AGP!

Maybe I should buy something other than what my PC came with ...
\\"The only benchmarks that matter is my impression of the system while using the apps I use. Everything else is opinion.\\" - FooGoo
 

Offline Floid

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2003, 05:46:40 PM »
Quote

carls wrote:
@orgamsatron

My CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2200+ which I think should be enough for most demos.

I don't think you get my point, though. To me, demos are supposed to look awesome even on slower hardware - compare for example The Castle, Little Nell or Relic running on AGA and a 50MHz 060 and a demo that requires a 2.2GHz P4 and a GF4 Ti4200. Of course the PC demo should be fast! Where did optimization go?
Well, it really is a different planet now.  In the '80s-'90s, hardware didn't scale - demoing was a show of skill.  Today, hardware scales on a weekly basis, and it's... let's say, equally important... to show you can conceive of *anything* that puts it to use.  The commodity software scene certainly isn't doing the job (because, let's face it, you can't make *money* off something that only runs on the cutting 0.1% of the PC scene!)...

That said, I haven't really looked, lately.  I was amused to find something from MFX? (mfx_d2.tgz, forget if I found it on Scene.org?) for Linux that ran under SDL and FreeBSD's Linuxulation... that whet my appetite, and I went looking for other Linux demos that actually looked like "demos," but seems the few groups who've released have done a poor job of explaining what, exactly, their software requires (and thus is 'doing').

Obviously, to have a 'scene' as open as that some people knew (I was never really around for it), you can't be restricting to rare and expensive hardware... but I think there's room enough for both approaches to have their place.
 

Offline carlsTopic starter

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2003, 09:14:18 PM »
@orgamsatron
Mmm. I really enjoyed the Yodel demo. It made me happy again! :-)
Amiga: Too weird to live, too rare to die.
 

Offline orgamsatron

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2003, 07:29:26 PM »
Quote
I don't think you get my point, though. To me, demos are supposed to look awesome even on slower hardware


How does one define "slower hardware" on a PC?  A 486DX, or the budget GeForceFX cards?  Both can be considered slow from certain perspectives.

Contrary to yourself, there are people in the PC demoscene who complain current productions don't use enough new features found on the Radeon 9000 or GeForceFX series.  It really is a different scene from all other platforms, you're just going to have to accept that.

Try the GameBoy Advance scene, that might be more your style.



Quote
- compare for example The Castle, Little Nell or Relic running on AGA and a 50MHz 060 and a demo that requires a 2.2GHz P4 and a GF4 Ti4200.


But these are just relatively simple (by today's standards) 3D flybys running at far less than 60 fps in super low-resolution.  Your graphics card can easily run demos similar to this at 1024x768 @ 60 fps.

Okay, I know this is a flawed comparison, but take Relic.  It runs at about 160x120 @ 30 fps with an '060 @ 50 MHz.  To run it at 1280x960 @ 30 fps, which contains exactly 64 times more pixel surface area, would essentially require 64 times more computing power.  50 MHz x 64 = 3.2 GHz.

Of course this is a pretty flawed comparison for obvious reasons, but it does show that PC demos aren't as slow as you seem to think.



Quote
Of course the PC demo should be fast! Where did optimization go?


Optimized like games?  They now take several years to develop, a few dozen staff, and millions of dollars.  What demogroup has those resources?

Making a good demo with modern hardware requires a much larger precentage of time devoted to design.  Moppi Productions only produce one demo a year, and their code seems far from optimized.  Yet the design, content, and style of their productions is quite startling.  Stunning stuff.
 

Offline Leo42

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2003, 02:02:39 AM »
If you want a decent 64Kb Demo, be sure to try "Heaven Seven": http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5

After that no one will ever say that PC Demos suck ;)

@+,
Leo.
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

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Re: PC Demos
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2003, 10:34:11 AM »
Ahh the memories... The days of watching Future Crew demos on my 386...
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -