Your Dream Place Or Country That You Would Like To Visit

[PMC]

Calm down chaps, please!

@Tigger

According to the CIA, China is expected to eclipse the USA as the number one superpower within 15 years.  Right now, China is loaning the US billions of dollars to keep the economy afloat, and sooner or later will want to collect on that loan.  

Just where did you get the information that makes you think that the 3 gorges dam is going to collapse?  

@MDMA

China is a self proclaimed "communist" state and although they're embracing free market economics, the chinese flag and political system remain very much in the old style mould.  Communism altered irrevocably in the mid 1980s when restrictions on free trade were relaxed.  

I've nothing against the system of socialism or communism in principle, but what I have got a problem with is regiemes that pay lip service to human rights.  Myanmar is alledged to have perpetrated some appalling human rights abuses, and I remember the TV images of Tianaman Square in 1989...

The human rights abuses by the COMECON nations prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall remain my primary issue with socialism.

Tigger wrote:

mdma wrote:

Helloooooooooo!?!?!?!?

My friend LIVES in the fekking country, he's not there on holiday.

China is a dictatorship, that doesn't make it communist.
It's a peoples republic only in name, as my friend said the UK is more socialist than China.

My friend is an EXTREMELY well educated man, and has several degrees and a masters to his name.  So when he tells me China isn't communist I tend to believe him, rather than some bloke on a web forum who lives up to the stereotype of the arrogant yank traveller that so shames the rest of their country.

If you friend honestly doesnt realize that China is a communist country, then he shouldn't have spent all that money on his education, most of the high school students on this site understand china is communist, why is your friend having trouble.  The chinese government themselves will tell you they are a communist government.   Noone in there right mind thinks that the UK is more socialist then China.   Anyone here besides mdma want to argue that China isn't a communist country and that UK is more socialist then China??  
    -Tig
   

My friend spent nothing on his education.  Socialism paid for it.

Do you believe everything the Chinese government say Tigger, or do you just have selective hearing?

I'm sorry but frankly Cuba is less communist then China

You clearly show you have no idea what Communism is Tigger.  In Cuba, the "people"(state) own everything, hence the problem the USA has with Cuba.

China on the other hand allows individual wealth and prosperity and also foreign investment and ownership of property and businesses.

Both have a none elected government that commit human rights abuses.

China is more like Italy under Mussolini than Castro's Cuba or Lenin's Russia.

If you want to try and understand what Communism is meant to be, and why there has NEVER been a Communist state, and almost certainly NEVER will be, I have provided a link to an online version of the Communist Manifesto.

Karlos wrote:
Well, you are arguing over semantics. Conventionally, china is a communist country because that's what it claims to be and it had it's communist revolution etc.

I believe what mdma and his friend are arguing is that compared to the conventional view of what communism is, where the state effectively owns and runs everything, china is rather different. Like capatlist countries it has free trade and individial people / buisnesses can prosper. Indeed, they are doing. Expect to be eclipsed by chinas economy in the not too distant future.

What I mean to say is:

CAPITALISM   != DEMOCRACY
DICTATORSHIP != COMMUNISM

China is capitalist and is not a democracy.

PMC wrote:
Calm down chaps, please!

@Tigger

According to the CIA, China is expected to eclipse the USA as the number one superpower within 15 years.  Right now, China is loaning the US billions of dollars to keep the economy afloat, and sooner or later will want to collect on that loan.  

Just where did you get the information that makes you think that the 3 gorges dam is going to collapse?  

@MDMA

China is a self proclaimed "communist" state and although they're embracing free market economics, the chinese flag and political system remain very much in the old style mould.  Communism altered irrevocably in the mid 1980s when restrictions on free trade were relaxed.  

I've nothing against the system of socialism or communism in principle, but what I have got a problem with is regiemes that pay lip service to human rights.  Myanmar is alledged to have perpetrated some appalling human rights abuses, and I remember the TV images of Tianaman Square in 1989...

The human rights abuses by the COMECON nations prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall remain my primary issue with socialism.

I have long held the view that postwar Britain had the finest implementation of Socialism ever witnessed in this world.  It's gone forever and will never come back.

Human rights abuses are the shame of this world as a whole, we western nations stand back and let these wicked things happen time after time.  The only time we do anything is if we want some natural resource or other from the place the abuses are happening.

Why not send the soldiers into Darfur or Zimbabwe?  If next week Mugabe pronounced to the world that he'd discovered the biggest oil reserve in the world sitting under the soil of Harare, you could guarantee every single soldier currently in Iraq would be on the first plane to Africa.

Disgusting.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Tigger wrote:

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

Tigger wrote:
China, Vietnam, Myyanmar (Burma) and Laos all have gorgeous weather and better scenery.

You obviously never went to China, considering your opinion about the weather there...
China is BIIIIIG y'know...

You are obviously wrong, I have been to China, in fact there was a long thread on here when I got back.  China in the summer is very nice, sure its a big country, but Beijing is a spectacular capital city and Guilin is one of the prettiest places on earth.  Throw in the Terra Cotta warriors at Xian and some time on the Yangtze and thats a real vacation.   Hong Kong and Shanghai are also always worth a visit.  
    -Tig

:roll: firstly, if you took the effort to read my post, you would've noticed this part of the sentence: "considering your opinion about the weather there", so I wanted to point out ONLY about the weather. If I go to the US, and specifically, Florida, well, there'd be nice weather in the summer now wouldn't it? But what does the climate in Florida says about the climate in for instance, Idaho? And then, also you went there in the summer. Now I know summers can be very nice here in NL, but for the rest...

[Tigger]

mdma wrote:

You clearly show you have no idea what Communism is Tigger.  In Cuba, the "people"(state) own everything, hence the problem the USA has with Cuba.

Actually that has nothing to do with our issue with Cuba, ask any American who understands the Cuba issue and they will tell you the same thing.  

China on the other hand allows individual wealth and prosperity and also foreign investment and ownership of property and businesses.

Some and very limited, my company does business with China every day, I know all about what we can and cannot do there.
Most housing is still owned by the government, most businesses are still owned by the government, foreign investors by and large have minority stakes.  Its great to say you have private ownership, but if the government can and will take it away from you at will, do you really own it???  Two million people have been told to move as part of 3 Gorges, by and large there is no place for them to move, but there current homes are going to be underwater, so they have to move.

If you want to try and understand what Communism is meant to be, and why there has NEVER been a Communist state, and almost certainly NEVER will be,

Read the book, they didnt make a movie.  But thats besides the point, you said you wanted to go to a communist country, which is why you wanted to go to Cuba.  You can't hide behind there never has been a communist state when you are the one who said Cuba was one.
    -Tig

[Tigger]

PMC wrote:
@Tigger

According to the CIA, China is expected to eclipse the USA as the number one superpower within 15 years.  Right now, China is loaning the US billions of dollars to keep the economy afloat, and sooner or later will want to collect on that loan.  

Just where did you get the information that makes you think that the 3 gorges dam is going to collapse?  

I know all about the CIA report, and unrestrained it probably would eclipse the US economy, however there are several factors (two of which I mentioned) that the CIA didnt factor in.  The first being the huge sex schism in the country, male children outnumber female children by a factor of as high as 7 or 8 to 1 in major cities due to the 1 child rule.  Secondly the dam, 30 miles downstream from 3 gorges the chinese built a dam to work on the techniques they would use at 3 gorges, in 2000 when I sailed through that area, I got two impressions, one that the 3 gorges dam was already showing cracks and secondly that the 8(?) year older dam downstream looked like it was about to collapse.  In 2002, the downstream dam did indeed collapse, shortly after they closed the gates on 3 gorges.  But dont take my word for it, a google of Three Gorges collapse, will give you lots of professional opinions about the situation.  The filling of the reservoir will cause earthquakes in the area, and though the dam is designed to withstand up to 7.0, I'm not sure I would bet on it.  Of course I wonder what the folks up north think of the the dam the Chinese call the Canadian Dam??  But hey apparently today the Chinese announced they want to build a tunnel or bridge to Taiwan, thats an even crazier idea then 3 gorges.
    -Tig

[Tigger]

PMC wrote:
Calm down chaps, please!

@Tigger

According to the CIA, China is expected to eclipse the USA as the number one superpower within 15 years.  Right now, China is loaning the US billions of dollars to keep the economy afloat, and sooner or later will want to collect on that loan.  

In addition,  I think it likely that Rawski (and his friends) are more likely right about the current state of Chinas economy then the CIA.   Goldman Sachs seems to agree with me.
   -Tig
     

[WinterStar]

Gotta be the Arctic for me. Mountains and ice, lit by an aurora, would just be so beautiful to behold.