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Author Topic: Where Do We Draw The Line?  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline beller

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 12, 2005, 01:39:16 AM »
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FastRobPlus wrote:

There are a LOT of ex-Amiga, Sierra, C64, Atari etc. folks influencing the US software and hardware industry even today!  Many of them are at the very highest levels of management or product development, and are essentialy designing the things they always wanted to design, but needed stong corporate backing to make a reality.


I talked with Denny Atkin a few months ago (Denny Atkin's Best Amiga Tips and Secrets).  Denny is now working for Microsoft on Longhorn...I'd call that an Amiga guy who's near the center of power!

Bob
 

Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2005, 01:45:59 AM »
DirectMusic (part of directX) was done by none other than Todor Fay (the bars and pipes guy) of Amiga fame.


It's very true, the PC and the Mac wouldn't be what it is today without the Amiga and multimedia expertise it brought many of us..
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Offline FastRobPlus

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2005, 04:28:06 AM »
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beller wrote:
Quote

FastRobPlus wrote:

There are a LOT of ex-Amiga, Sierra, C64, Atari etc. folks influencing the US software and hardware industry even today!  Many of them are at the very highest levels of management or product development, and are essentialy designing the things they always wanted to design, but needed stong corporate backing to make a reality.


I talked with Denny Atkin a few months ago (Denny Atkin's Best Amiga Tips and Secrets).  Denny is now working for Microsoft on Longhorn...I'd call that an Amiga guy who's near the center of power!

Bob


That's amazing!  I bought a wireless NIC from Denny just last month!  We didn't talk too much about Amiga.  We did talk about the old Access Software a little but.  But just goes to show how many oldschool guys are still active!
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2005, 07:34:57 AM »
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Wayne:  Memory and hard drives are cheap, especially for the outdated slower PPC systems, so stop {bleep}ing about the resources.

Precisely.  When I was working with AMOS (my first programming experience since MLX on the C64), I knew that was the direction that computers were going to take -- interpreted code and no more pre-compiled, low-level stuff.  Since I've started working with PHP, Perl, and Java, I will *NEVER* go back to compilers and C.  Sure, these run-time and JIT compiled languages are slower and use more memory, but it saves you a HUGE amount of time worrying about low-level stuff, and lets you focus on what you want to do.  I don't want to see a new micro-OS that has a 1MByte footprint, because it probably has very little in the way of error correction and reporting, and has flimsy programming interfaces that are easily broken quickly obsoleted by yet more incompatible interfaces.  It boggles the mind to think of how many times Microsoft has rewritten the core of thier OS.

Don't forget why UNIX has been around so long.  Using Perl to write your scripts is a perfectly viable option to slimmer, more efficient languages, because it gets the job done and saves you a LOT of time.

Now, if only Perl could be updated so it wasn't so damned obtuse.  It's good, but frightfully confusing, especially since it has a terrible way of "faking" function calls with subroutines.  :-)

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Having helped quite a few users, I must disagree. Most users don't care for features of any given OS, but rather cares for what applications said platform provides

Prejudice plays a part.  I doubt many people really know how many applications are available for Linux that properly mimic the most popular applications for Windows.

Design is a lost art, though.  It's easy to replace ten popular Windows apps with a single, simple tool built into the OS.  Very, very few people are truly competent at interface design outside of the Windows and Mac market.  Linux drives me nuts.  It looks like Windows, but is nowhere near as informative and convenient when it comes to the GUI.  Linux people do what pleases themselves and usually lack the level of intuition needed for designing software for ordinary people.  It really is still a UNIX clone and a command-promt environment, and will likely stay that way.

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Wayne:  ...though they still love the Amiga if only for it's philosophy and sense of nostalgia.

Definately.  My favorite part about the Amiga is the fact it was so good at balancing the CLI and GUI at the same time, had the most interesting software (like graphic and audio programs which the PC/Mac couldn't handle), and most importantly, was the first personal computer with a truly extensive public domain scene.  There were tons of free, useful programs in the Amiga domain long before Linux and PC "shareware" came along!

I still don't think today's GPL'd scene is as good as the PD scene was on the Amiga.

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FastRobPlus:  There are a LOT of ex-Amiga, Sierra, C64, Atari etc. folks influencing the US software and hardware industry even today!

Which is precicely why the Amiga will never shine again.  All the people who originally made the Amiga terrific have moved on to other platforms.  With the rediulous licensing schemes used by Hyperion, Amiga, and Genesi, I doubt that kind of free, creative energy will ever come back.  I see the Amiga as a reference for a new platform, and a nostalgic toy.  But the Amiga itself and its development community is very much dead.

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DonnyEMU:  DirectMusic (part of directX) was done by none other than Todor Fay (the bars and pipes guy) of Amiga fame.

I'm not surprised.  DirectX is a bit quirky, but nevertheless helped make Windows more Amiga-like in terms of multimedia.  DirectInput, in particular, was a huge and largely underappreciated leap forward in OS design for which Microsoft deserves a lot of credit.  I would never have traded my A1200 for Windows 3.1, but when Win95 OSR2 came along with DirectX, I converted without hesitation.
 

Offline gizz72

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2005, 07:41:25 AM »
Greetings,
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Hammer wrote:
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Wayne wrote:
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My point is - there are a lot of Amiga users who derive joy from trying to get their systems to do the impossible. It's part of why they are here in the first place.
Well spoken, but I would add that there's a fourth group.  

4) Those who fell in love with the Amiga in 198x and used it extensively, gaining many friends along the way but due to external factors (work, needs, whatever), they've had to accept the reality of computing and move on -- though they still love the Amiga if only for it's philosophy and sense of nostalgia.

Well, even Microsoft?s Avalon 3D demo was influenced by Amiga nostalgia e.g. "boing demo". MS demonstrator?s MSDN blogs indicates he was ex-Amiga programmer and offered a link to one of Amiga historical sites.


Let's also remember the people behind the Amiga(the Engineers, OS/Software designers, The father(Jay)) that made all this possible that we're all here talking about it in the first place. The same people are still influencing the mainstream PC. I also fall in the category of nostalgia, but I also want to use it for the future. As I said it before, the Amiga Evolves. As long as the People behind the machine drives it, we can still go places with it. As long as there are Web sites that are still dedicated to this fine machine(this site included), we have a better place to come home to and share our experiences with.
Most importantly, the one thin line that makes the Amiga a sweet machine to have is that it made computing a fun and enjoyable thing. Yes Windows maybe easy to use, Amiga made it all *FUN. :-D Now that's priceless!

Regards,

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Offline PMC

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Re: Where Do We Draw The Line?
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2005, 10:41:28 AM »
Yeah, I too fell in love with the Amiga way of doing things...  It started out in 1990 with the smug feeling that I could out-do expensive machines costing four times as much with my humble A500 and I never tired of watching vector bobs bouncing around my screen or playing the latest all dancing shoot emp up with all the bells and whistles.

By the mid-90's it was solely about sticking to a platform I knew and loved that would be resurrected one day.  Nostalgia for the good old days dictated my decision to stick with the platform.

By the turn of the century I'd just grown used to the Amiga way of doing things, and although my PS2 and PC play games with nicer eye candy, my Amiga boots straight into OS3.9 in a very short time compared even with XP.  On UAE it's faster still (less than 10 seconds!), demonstrating the fundamental appeal of the OS.  

I'm a terrible "fettler".  Before I ride my MTB I can usually be found by the trailside with shock pumps and calculating "sag" settings for the suspension in my head before endlessly tweaking the rebound, compression and preload of my bike's front and rear shocks, before altering the height of the saddle etc.  It doesn't actually make me any faster (am embarrassingly slow as a matter of fact), nor can I clear jumps any higher but I have to feel comfortably "dialled-in" with the bike.  And I'm exactly the same with my Amiga.  I will spend endless minutes tweaking the GUI, messing about with scripts, stack settings (thank you StackAttack!), startup-sequences and MUI preferences.  But do I actually achieve more on the Amiga than I do my XP box?  No.

Most people can't be arsed with all that, they want an OS that works reliably, runs what the hell they like and will play media files.  If they feel like it, they'll upload a new desktop image but that's about it.  

Thankfully, AmigaOS can do the above too - provided someone like me hasn't come along and "optimised" a few things...
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