Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.  (Read 11022 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline A6000

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 443
    • Show only replies by A6000
Re: Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.
« Reply #59 from previous page: August 12, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »
Quote

Raffaele wrote:
check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:


- HD-REC

http://www.hd-rec.de/



Quote

HD-Rec is a powerful MIDI/audio sequencer for Amiga OS. It combines comfortable MIDI notation with extensive audio editing within the same application, running always 100% synchron. To achieve this, HD-Rec takes full advantage of the AHI system for audio and the CAMD system for MIDI input and output. HD-Rec is 100% system friendly, so you can be sure that it will run on your existing and future hardware.
HD-Rec has a powerful plugin interface allowing a wide range of plugins, like patch editors, softsynth or visualisation plugins. Beside this, it has an easy interface for audio effects, like a high quality reverb, delay, chorus and more.

*very user friendly and intuitive to use
*16 bit / 11.025-96.0 kHz non-destructive audio recording & editing, not limited by RAM
*32 bit audio realtime effects (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor...)
*Bars&Pipes style notator for MIDI elements
*Audiomaster style editor for audio elements
*uses AHI for audio and CAMD for MIDI
*powerful plugin system for MIDI/audio applications like softsynths or patcheditors
*256 tracks (MIDI/audio)
*supports .aiff, .wav, .maud, .raw, .cdda, .8svx, .mp3, .mod and .mid files


Works better on new Amigas equpped with audiocards and AHI...


- Digibooster PRO tracker

http://www.digiboosterpro.de/indexe.php



Quote

DBPro is a so called tracker program. It´s possible to produce your own music by using samples. So called pattern will be programmed by typing in sequences and commandos. Put together the patterns lead to a whole music track.

With the current version of DBPro it is possible to manage up to:

Trackfeatures:
128 Tracks
256 Samples (sound files with no size limitation)
1024 Patterns
1024 Positions

within one song.

Track format loading:
Digibooster 1.x (digi)
Protracker (mod)
Oktalyzer (okt)
Octamed (mmd0-mmd3)
OctamedSoundStudio (oss)
FastTracker (xm)
ScreamTracker (s3m)

There is the possibility to save the tracks not only as the Dbm format but also as Xm or Mod format.

Sample format loading:
IFF 8SVX (mono - 8 Bit)
IFF 16SV (mono - 16 Bit)
RIFF WAV (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
AIFF (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
MP3 (CBR) Import LayerI-III

With the following extras there are nearly no limits for the creativity:
(B)eats (P)er (M)inute Pitcher
DSP Echo (Echo Delay, Feedback, Mix and Cross)
Volume envelopes
Balance envelopes
Roland TB-303 "GrooveBox" Emulation 8not realtime)
HD recording for samples using AHI Harddiskrecord
Optional realtime 32 bit HIFI mixing with linear interpolation
Two different commands per trace at the same time
Almost all shortcuts and commands are compatible with ProTracker
Up to 7 Oktaven
CyberGraphX & Picasso96 card support
and many more ...

Thanks to AHI support every AHI soundcard can be used

With a little patience, interest and some feeling for rhythm within your venes you will soon discover all those various possibilities for producing music with Digibooster Professional.

We wish you thereby much success and fun!

System requirements:

(Amiga - Minimum configuration)
68020 CPU
2 MB availble RAM
Kickstart 2.0
ahi.device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library

(Amiga - Recommended configuration)
68060 CPU
10 MB availble RAM (for huge projects with 16 bit samples even more might be required)
Kickstart 3.1
Gfx card
Sound card

(Pegasos - configuration)
Gx CPU (Since 68k is still emulated at present)
min. 2 MB availble RAM
MorphOs 1.4
ahi-device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library



- Audio Evolution

http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/index.html



Quote

Up to 60 (stereo) samples simultaneously (depending on processor power and harddisk controller).

Any sample rate is supported (depending on the used soundcard).

Full duplex recording for simultaneous recording and playback.

Each mixer channel gives you control over the following features:
Volume
Panning
Mute
Solo
Subgroup (1-4) assignment
3 insert effects with on/off switch
3-band EQ with on/off switch
4 Aux sends

Every channel has a separate PPM volume display.

Separate window for 4 subgroups with volume, mute and solo per group.

Full mixer-automation: channel volume, panning, mutes, master volume, subgroup volumes, subgroup mutes and even insert effect parameters can be automated. Automation events can be edited directly on the timeline or through an event list. They can also be recorded during playback by mouse or MIDI remote control (touch and latch mode).

OS4 native realtime effects with real-time parameter control, on/off switch and metering (where applicable). Possible CPU overload is detected, preventing lock-ups during playback.

Expansion window with direct access to a 3-band equalizer and 4 auxillaries (effect sends).

Non-destructive non-linear editing (cut, copy, paste, move, split, trim, crossfade) using the time line display.

Unlimited undo for time line editing operations.

Regionize tool: find pauses or moments of relative silence and automatically place markers or split the region into subregions. The marker information can be exported to the CD burning package BurnIt which is great for mastering old vinyl records or live recordings: all separate tracks can be identified automatically.

Grid options to align regions: grid size can be set in milliseconds, bars/beats up to 1/64th note and videoframes (24, 25, 30fps)

A marker mechanism on top of the timeline lets you place locators, punch in/out markers and the time marker easily, giving quick and accurate access to these items.

Metronome and time signature settings.

Separate window for (destructive) sample editing with the usual features like cut, copy, paste and erase range. Direct to disk, not limited by memory.

Effect plug-ins like Compressor, Delay, Noise Gate, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Parametric EQ and Reverb can be applied both realtime and non-realtime.

Synchronisation to other equipment or applications:
MIDI (by direct serial port communication or using the CAMD library):
By sending a MIDI start-command and a Song Position Pointer, you can synchronize audio with an external MIDI sequencer. You can also receive MIDI start-commands.
AREXX
Bars&Pipes sync tool
Master Control Bus to synchronize to and control other applications that support the MCB. The MCB will be released for OS4.


Dolby Pro Logic encoder for mastering 4 mono tracks to the Dolby Pro Logic surround format. Note that this is only an experimental tool: no realtime auditioning or sound positioning is possible.

Project-based: a separate directory for each separate project is created to manage your samples in an easier way



- AHX

http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/main.html



Quote

AHX is a protracker-like music editor that was designed especially to create C64-like synthetic tunes. There is no support for sampled instruments as chip tunes are made to be as small in size as possible. So an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked). All waveforms of the C64 are supported: Triangle, Sawtooth, Square and White Noise. Also Hi-/Lo-Pass filtering effects are supported (ring-modulation is hopefully to come in AHXv3). Check out the News/Updates-Page for the changes in the current version!


Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out (BIG THanX to Buzz/Maniacs for giving me the source of his hacked 2.1-000er version-it helped a lot!)

Fixed some minor bugs and added some little features. Refer to the History file please.

Fully Protracker keyboard-compatible track editor featuring variable pattern-length, single-voice patterns, Protracker-Module-Import and Optimize-function.

Sub-Songs.

Powerful synthetic instruments-editor featuring all C64 waveforms as triangle, sawtooth, square and white noise.

Instrument-specific apreggio-/macro list featuring fixed/variable notes.

Player features: square modulation, vibrato control, note slide, transpose, hi-/lo-pass filter, hardcut, multiple speed CIA, 68000-compatible, supports using your own cia for multiple speed modules now!

Full multitasking- and graphics board-support. (Runs on CyberGraphix, etc.)

Built in AmigaGuide help; internal help system to explain all commands etc.

VolumeMeters, CPU-usage display

AmigaOS-compliant: uses ASL- and Intuition-Requesters.

Fully controlable via keyboard, no long mouse-movements needed.

Player for Delitracker (using DeliTracker's NotePlayer system) shipped.

Binary-/Assembler-/BlitzBasicII-Player for your own productions included, AmosPro-Player, E-Module and C/C++ Module available (see Productions page for links).



- Amiga SoundFX

http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html















Quote

more than 50 effects, with many parameters and complexs ways to modulate them, like :
SoundSynthesis (AM,FM,...)
3D-Cube-Parametermodulation (Mix, Equalize)
Effects e.g. Hall, Echo, Delay, Chorus/Phaser, Morph, Pitchshift ...
Operations e.g. Resample, ZeroPass (FadeIn/FadeOut), Middle, Amplify, Mix, DeCrackle, ConvertChannels ...
2D/3D-Spectrumanalysis
very good filters and boosters with resonancy !!!
nearly every parameter could be modulated in the following ways :
none : no modulation, static processing
curve : fades smooth from one value to a second one with variable curvature
cycle : oszilates between two value with different waveforms, frequency and phase are adjustable
vector : envelope editor
user : a samplebuffer modulates the value, contains several mappings, can even grab the modulator volume or pitch-envelope
SoundFX has several alpha-channels (one for each important parameter), furthermore SoundFX can generate alpha-channels algorithmically.
more than 100 presets are included
features 4 different interpolations types
fx,loaders and savers are external program modules and will be loaded on first use
reads and writes many sample formats including various compression types
(IFF-8SVX,IFF-16SV,IFF-AIFF,IFF-AIFC,MP3,RAW,RIFF-WAV,VOC,SND-AU,...)
clippboard support (with all 256 clipunits)
you can work with many samples at once (every sample has it's own sizeable window)
works in mono, stereo and quadro
works with samples on disk (when running out of memory)
sampledata is held in memory or on disk with 16bit quality
high quality, because of floatingpoint-arithmetic (80/64bit) during calculations
plays in 8bit,14bit and 14bit-calibrated on the standart paula-chip, players are using only up to 4kByte Chipmemory
AHI-player (for soundcard-owners)  
unlimited X and Y zooming
X and Y axis in samplewindows
features lots of different units for entering parameters and displaying axis
extensivly expanded mark and range editing
font, screenmode and sizesensitive gui
appicon support
systemconform programmed (tested with cyberguard, wipeout and blowup)
and many more features (read guide)



Would wayne or raffaele move this information to the amiga audio forum where it will be more easily found in future.
Thanks for this info raffaele.
 

Offline Ral-ClanTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 1979
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by Ral-Clan
    • http://www3.sympatico.ca/clarke-santin/
Re: Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2008, 02:48:47 PM »
Wow, thanks everyone for all the advice and discusson this thread has generated.  

To address some of the comments:

Quote
Raffaele wrote:
check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:


Thanks for your informative and massive post.  I actually am aware of all of those programs (and have even registered some long ago).  I have been a SoundFX user for about 10 years.  I had always wished to run HD-REC on my Amiga, but my 040 couldn't cope with it.  I had been holding on, waiting for a faster Amiga to come out that wouldn't cost the insane prices of those PPC boards, but, alas, my hardware finally met its end.

And as for hardware issued with my old Amigas?  Well, the A2091 SCSI controller went nuts, frying itself, a hard drive and a CD-ROM burner (plus all the latest customs chips and GURU ROM that were on it).  I do have a two other big-box Amigas that I tried to set up as replacement systems.  Unfortunately, I have found that the SCSI bus (or something else) in the A3000 is not totally compatible with the Repulse Audio board I use.  The Repulse audio board is THE most critical element of my Amiga audio workstation (that's how I get audio into the Amiga for mastering, sampling, etc.).  On my old A2000/040 it would record beautifully, silently.  On the A3000 (and once when I tried it in an 060 equiped A2000) it also performed nicely on playback, but on recording there was intermittent digital noise bursts EVEN WHEN RECORDING VIA THE OPTICAL CABLE.  This is just unacceptable for use in a home studio setting.  I'm not sure why it occurs, but it does.  There were also other hardware issues (SCSI errors, aging hardware not always being recognized) etc. that were just too much of a headache and were getting in the way of actually making music.  Believe me, when I say I have tried everything, I mean it.  I did NOT give up lightly on Amiga. I spend a week and half every day trying new things, and I've been through all this before several times.  Besides, I don't really consider myself as leaving the Amiga (despite the title of my post), just moving my Amiga operations over to newer hardware (the PC with UAE) that is not 15-20 years old and failing.  I would have probably gone with A-Clone or Natami had it been out already, but it's not, and at least with the PC I also get to use all the incredible software for that platform.

In fact, I still have one slower, no-frills A2000 I'll keep around in the closet just in case I ever want to use it as a dedicated MIDI sequencer.  Right now, though, with the new PC, I won't have the deskspace for two full desktop systems, so I'll be using UAE for Amiga stuff.

Okay folks, so this is what I purchased:

A used IBM (I like the reliability of IBM hardware) P4 running at 2.4GHz with 1GB RAM.  This will be far faster than anything I have owned in the past, and should suffice for Amiga emulation and all PC DAW/MIDI work *I* need to do.  

I realise this is not a cutting edge computer by today's standards, but in my old setup (a digital multi-track deck synced to the Amiga running Bars & Pipes) I always found that 8 audio tracks with two external effects and compressor, plus 16 tracks of MIDI were more than enough for me to create quite full sounding music.  16 tracks will be decadent to me (for now!)

I will be purchasing the M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI card for this computer:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html.  

I am a little concerned about it only having one MIDI I/O, so I may have to buy a multi-port USB MIDI interface if I need more.

I will be keeping my Yamaha MD-8 minidisc multitracker.  It will be mainly used as an external audio mixer for my synths and as an input for my microphones to the sound-card of the PC (the multitracker has a nice analog mixer section with real EQ knobs and a couple of XLR inputs with phantom power).  Also, I can use this multitracker as a simultaneous 8-track "field recorder" and dump live performances back to the PC for final mixdown.

Samplitude Opus was a very important application for me on the Amiga.  I have therefore ordered Magix Samplitude Music Studio 14.  I have used an older version of Magix Audio Studio 5 on the PC before and really loved it.  I then discovered it was by the Samplitude people and knew why!

http://www.magix.com/us/samplitude-music-studio/detail/

I also have an older version of Logic (5.2) to try out for comparison.

I also have a very old copy of Cakewalk (MIDI ONLY) for Windows 3.1 (that still works on modern PCs) that I will use as a simple MIDI only sequencer (for when I don't need a big app for audio tracks).  I have run it on a 486 laptop for a while now as a portable setup, and have found it to be very reliable and with good timing.  It's not as fancy as Bars & Pipes was, but it is still quite good.

I have also ordered Cloanto's Amiga Forever 2008 Deluxe.  I know I could have just set up UAE for free, but I consider this purchase my "last toast" to the real Amiga (and Amiga dealers).  The inclusion of the deathbed vigil DVD (which I've never seen in its entirety before will be a fitting tribute to the death of my real Amiga).

I am encouraged by the success of many people here in using UAE to run Amiga audio & MIDI software.  I hope to be able to continue to use Bars & Pipes, OctaMED, etc.  Along with SoundFX, ImageFX, PageStream, etc. (all for which I have been a long-time registered user).

The Windows audio software, I must admit, it amazing.  One nice thing is that I will finally be able to just pop a song in progress onto a CD-R and give it to someone else with a DAW to lay their tracks onto in their own home studio.  Before, I always had to schedule get-together times for recording because this was not possible.

Another thing I will love is mix-automization, and mixer snapshot feature.  Using an analogue mixer before meant carefully writing down all the settings between sessions.

Here is a picture of my "old" home recording setup using the Amiga 2000 (2500).

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1690

Thanks again everyone for the advice.  I will report here on my experience setting up the PC system.

 :crazy:
Music I've made using Amigas and other retro-instruments: http://theovoids.bandcamp.com
 

Offline the_leander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 3448
    • Show only replies by the_leander
    • http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/
Re: Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2008, 04:00:17 PM »
Good luck with the new setup  :-)
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

[SIGPIC]http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/[/SIGPIC]
 

Offline amigaksi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 827
    • Show only replies by amigaksi
    • http://www.krishnasoft.com
Re: Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2008, 07:46:41 PM »
>My hearing tests and their results are a matter of record.

>What, you want me to get a photostat of them for you?

I think they forgot to compare my hearing to yours and many other people's including my dog's (who seems to hear somethings I can't).

>>There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.

>But there are on some and that ...

When you decide to state the models that you are talking about, we can better determine what the timing differences are.  Until then, we go by the specs.

>That is not using an Emulator though, is it? It's a port using native hardware without any form of emulation wrapper. Also, if you know the basic sampling speeds of two devices you should be able to correct for one to the other to maintain sync.

Port and native versions are always better than emulated versions.  You need to go check with some software expert regarding that.  You can adjust the sample (either resample the data or change the total time by finding closest frequency supported by hardware).

>You can argue that it might not be "exact" when measured under some insanely convoluted system of your choosing that no human ear could ever detect in a million years, but that isn't the point, the point is, does it sound different, are there distortions between emulation and real, the answer is no.

Nothing convulated about 11Khz sampling rate.  Higher rates will deviate more samples.  Sound Blaster is integrated into many motherboards including thinkpads and some toshiba maintain SB compatibility.  Why don't you state the specs of your sound card and which frequency crystal it's using for the sampling rate.  And I was only giving a simple example, if I wanted I could start using Copper lists and modifying audio registers and you'll be getting audio distortions all over the place in your emulator.
--------
Use PC peripherals with your amiga: http://www.mpdos.com