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Author Topic: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?  (Read 10376 times)

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Offline tjaoz

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@platon42

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I'm also upset about Elbox, but people know this already.
And I'm upset about you. And it won't change until you give me back what I have paid you for.

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The thing is, they don't state anywhere on their website or press releases that the Spider (2) does not include a licence for Poseidon.
Here is what is written on USB drivers in Elbox website:

'Elbox Computer is pleased to announce that its drivers to PCI USB cards in the Mediator busboard operate under the Poseidon USB stack. These drivers have been prepared by Elbox programmers as a result of co-operation started a few weeks ago by Chris Hodges, author of the Poseidon stack. As the Poseidon stack is already supported by authors of third-party commercial software, we have decided that releasing another, our own, USB stack for Amiga under such circumstances would mean doubling effort of Amiga programmers. We are sure that high-quality software included in the Poseidon stack package and our hardware-optimised drivers resulting in high performance achieved by PCI USB cards in Mediator will satisfy even the most demanding users. The unregistered, time-limited version of the Poseidon USB stack will be available in the Mediator Multimedia CD. Registration of the Poseidon stack for Mediator users will be provided by Chris Hodges. '

Would you rather them write something like this below?

We cannot supply the Poseidon stack software. It is on Aminet. Chris Hodges has no licence agreement with us.  He 'only' wrote the stack to give users the opportunity to use USB devices. He did not pay us.  He accused us of no care about users of our  products. He never apologizes. He could produce good software, but in our opinion, he has no ethics at all. Users who want to use Poseidon without demo restrictions have to register.

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They hardly even say that it uses Poseidon.
What do you think the following sentence means in the Spider page?
• Amiga support works under the Poseidon stack

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They hardly even say that it uses Poseidon. When you ask them about that, they just say that it didn't /fit/ in the press release for space reasons (?).
Did you ask them? I bet you did not.

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For me, this is a clear attempt to cause misinformation to the end user (who is then angry about it and its his good right to be so).
This is typical for you to speak about Elbox.
First you give a bunch of untrue information about them, and then you jump to conclusions that they are not right.

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Elbox gives the impression that the Spider is cheaper than other solutions
And this is true. You probably have seen my summary:

USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $70

USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $ ???
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= $115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $75 (or $95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)

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as the users don't see they have to spend some extra money for the registration.

Untrue, they inform clearly about it.

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Quite a lot of money for buying the cheap PC cards and just sticking a new label on it.
You've got a problem because the card by Elbox, based on the best USB 2.0 chipset in the world, is so cheap?

You should rather write that 'quite a lot money' applies to USB 1.1 controllers, which are produced for Zorro2. Especially when you take into account how their parameters are worse than those of modern USB 2.0 cards.

Of course I appreciate that their producer must have been able to read the Zorro2 specification, to plot the board, to program a simple PLD chip and to connect it with a dollar-cheap 8-bit USB controller taken from Atmel or with such chip from Transdimension.

When I can buy for my Amiga something much better and cheaper, why should I buy a worse device and pay more for it?

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Don't ask me how many support emails I received by people not knowing that an unregistered copy will stop working after a short time.
Maybe because you do not write it clearly enough in the guide to your program?

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I am pissed about Elbox, and that won't change for a long time. However, Poseidon users are equally welcome.
I have the impression that the main reason of  your word crusade against Elbox is aimed at helping in sales of overpriced Zorro2 cards made by your friend. Maybe you should think about users too?
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2003, 05:41:47 PM »
Hello Michael,

That's regular now... when I say something directly to Chris Hodges about his improper behaviour YOU are responding.
This only confirms YOUR main role in his negative attitude to Elbox.
Do you really think the amiga community needs the conflict which you so intensely are trying to cause?

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Please note (once again, like in another thread where you used this wrong list),
learn about the difference in "VAT incl." and "VAT excl.". And, that (USD != EUR).
So, if you do comparisons, do them fair.
YOUR calculations are not reliable. See details in the thread you quote.

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Well, my dearest friend, you seem to be quite experienced with hardware design.
Your description is right, as far as the basic principle is concerned.
But the devil likes the details, anyhow.
Your claim (hey, how do you get on Atmel ? Seems that you have problems with
both reading and algebra) shows me that you never ever did anything with hardware
on your own.
What made you so angry when I wrote about Atmel?
Maybe it is because they publicly inform about price for their AT43USB35x 8-bit embedded USB controllers. These prices start from $1.25.

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Hey, that must be the reason that this damned overpriced HIGHWAY card is sold out.
I don't know why you have run out of these cards and I really do not care about it.
I have the Spider USB 2.0 card and I know well how far better it is when compared with these Algor, Highway or Subway USB 1.1 cards.

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Optionally, use your brain.
...
Oh, by the way, I always enjoy reading some bullshit originating from you.
I have noticed that whenever you have no arguments, you offend the other person. This is to prove your personal culture, for sure.

@every one

Cui prodest scelus, is fecit. (For non-Latin readers: The one who derives adavantage from the crime is the one most likely to have commited it).

Michael Boehmer, producer of the Algor, Highway and Subway controllers, is the main party who benefits from the public bad atmosphere between Chris Hodges and Elbox.
 
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2003, 05:27:00 PM »
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There's one main reason, why I don't listen to what a Rat says: It stinks. I wonder, why in fables, liars are often represented as rats. Stay in your dream world, where Elbox rules the world. Ignorance is bliss. Don't try to waste my time.

ARE THERE ANY MODERATORS IN THIS FORUM?
The posts like that one from Chris Hodges are so offensive--they surely violate the rules for this forum.

I bought my Poseidon keys from Chris Hodges and he knows my name. And he knows it sounds 'Rat' in translation.

I don't know from where Chris Hodges comes, maybe in his native country offending people by calling them names are something of a standard. Anyway, in my country such behaviour is considered complete lack of personal culture.
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2003, 07:45:32 PM »
@platon42

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You want something rude? I think, that somebody, who uses a "Rat" nickname on ann.lu
and then pretends to be offended to be addressed by this very nickname, he chose by
his own, is clearly utterly brainless.
'Rat' is my family name in translation to English language. I'm your customer and you have my personal data. My name--Rat--was used in this forum by YOU and by Michael Boehmer from E3B, NOT by me. In this forum I use nickname 'tjaoz' solely.

Read once again what YOU have written in your previous post:
'There's one main reason, why I don't listen to what a Rat says: It stinks. I wonder, why in fables, liars are often represented as rats.'
It is clear that YOU are trying to offend me personally with your rude comments related to my name. IMHO this your offensive post should be removed by moderators.

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Dense. IQ lower than the room temperature. Do you understand? I doubt it.
Another example of YOUR offensive attitude. Where is your education and upbringing?

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Everybody knows, what you're trying to do here, Jacek. You're a twister. You take the
words that people say and convert it into bullsh*t. Whenever somebody has a valid argument,
you either ignore it, or go down to personal insult level.
Personal insult level is what YOU are doing. You prove it with every word of yours. You offend intelligence of people reading this forum by your comments made as if nobody could see it. The same style goes for your friend here, Michael Boehmer. When he lacks arguments, HE starts insulting his interlocutor. Unlike your posts, I do not say anythng disturbing. I did NOT write anything offensive. Whatever you are trying to impute here, I never offended you, in public or in private.

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You deny the truth with every
possible method.
No. When I discuss things, I use facts. I often give links to verify what I am saying. Can't say this about your appearance here.

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In every country in this world, people have a word that would describe
your major character features. And it wouldn't be a friendly one.
Even in Poland. I know a lot of people from this country and they always behaved in
a friendly and fair way. It doesn't seem to be specific to a nation that there will always
be some assholes. There are assholes in Germany too, no doubt. (And before you start that:
No, I didn't say that /YOU/ are an asshole -- that's something you've got to find out yourself.
So to whom you address your insults?
Do you finally understand that your description is quite good for people behaving like you?

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What did you ever do for the Amiga? Eh?
I'am an Amiga user. I do not have to do anything special for Amiga to post my comments here. There are more people like me in this forum. That you have written some program for Amiga, doesn't mean that you are entitled to attacking users and offending them. If you do not agree with somebody, just write that your opinion is different and give arguments to back up your attitude.

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Did you ever do something productive? Something creative?
Yes, my work is productive. Still, my professional work has nothing to do with this forum.

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Or could it be possible that you might be a poor, frustrated slob without a girl
friend, who only has one task in this world: to ruin other people's day?
It looks like your girlfriend let you down and you let your steam out with aggression, frustration and being unfriendly for people.

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You've got no idea on the things you're talking about. But you would never admit it.
Example: You were indicating that Highway/Subway or Algor boards are using some Atmel
8 Bit USB Controller.
Not true, I did NOT write it. First learn reading and getting to understand texts, then comment. This is what I wrote here about USB Zorro2 boards:
'Of course I appreciate that their producer must have been able to read the Zorro2 specification, to plot the board, to program a simple PLD chip and to connect it with a dollar-cheap 8-bit USB controller taken from Atmel or with such chip from Transdimension.'

AFAIK Highway/Subway boards are based on a simple 8-bit USB controller UHC124 from Transdimension, similar to Atmel controllers, series AT43USB35x. Algor probably is based on a UHF243 from Transdimension, but Atmel produce a similar chip now, as well.

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That's complete bullshit.
Another comment referring to YOUR own post, thank you.

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You also claimed that USB1.1 chipsets would
not being produced anymore. That's also more than wrong.
Wrogn again, Chris. I did NOT write it. I wrote:
'USB 1.1 hosts which do not have the High Speed mode are now clearly obsolete. The basic difference between the USB 2.0 and the USB 1.1 standards is in adding High Speed mode in USB 2.0. Now no more USB 1.1 controllers (hosts) are produced for computers. Sure, there are devices with controllers (hosts) of the USB 1.1 standard, but not for computers. This type (USB 1.1) controllers (hosts) are installed in some specialised devices where speed of operation is not important.'
and
'Once again: Now no more USB 1.1 controllers (= PCI cards with USB ports) are produced for computers.'

These quotes come from my posts in the Highway ML: here and here.

It is clear that I did not write that USB1.1 chipsets would not be produced anymore as you state, but that obsolete USB1.1 host chipsets TO COMPUTERS are not produced any more. They are still produced for some specialised devices where speed of operation is not important. Get the difference?

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Have you ever thought of doing some therapy? I believe there are people, who could help you.
Doing therapy is a good idea. People will help me, sure. But how to make YOU come to sessions and get healed?

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Listen: I will send you back your EUR 20. All you have to do, is to delete your keyfile,
I can see you have NO idea about law that is binding you as a seller. It is me who could demand refunding from you. But I demand restoring the proper operation of the software that I bought from you.

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And pray that we never ever meet in person.
Why? Threatening me? What would you do to me?
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2003, 11:14:00 AM »
@platon42

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And about Elbox not attacking me: I am offended of being called a liar, cracker and pirate.
It is your imagination only. I just wrote in this tread about your false claims against Elbox. See my comment posted on 2003/5/30 16:27.
Is it a problem for you that they do not comment your behaviour?

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Finally, this thread also was about the price of the Algor board which is on sale right now.
This thread was not about Algor or prices, but about Spider and Poseidon. This is you who started here the talk about prices of hardware.  In your very first post in this thread you referred to price of the Spider card.

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The only aim Rat has, is to promote the pider (and can you be sure that he isn't one of Elbox' at least indirect employees according to all his postings during the whole year?) and bash the Algor with wrong and twisted information.
You are again insulting me with your fictitious complaints.
Read my posts again and you will see they are all based on facts. Only you are using offences.

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And about better hardware: I'll be giving away a free Poseidon registration for anyone, who can give a proof that the Spider (I or II) in an Mediator system is able to beat the Algor speedwise on an USB1.1 mass storage device (same CPU, same device).
It is obvious that Spider is much faster than Algor. Algor is only a USB 1.1 controller. Spider is a USB 2.0 High-Speed controller. All my masstorage devices work several times faster with Spider than they could work with Algor (according to Algor benchmarks page).

 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2003, 11:17:47 AM »
@Targhan

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Did you purchase Poseidon from Platon42, or was it to be included with your Spider?
I bought it from Chris Hodges directly.
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2003, 12:09:27 AM »
@Michel

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why do you repost this list which is obviously containing errors, even if you take the guidelines for comparisons Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is giving in its own postings ?
My summary quoted by Ikir reliably gives price relationships between USB controllers listed there.

As I wrote in the thread quoted by you, prices of these controllers in Germany (with 16% VAT included) are:

USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR70

USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR ???
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= EUR115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR75 (or EUR95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)

Nothing in the summary is changed except for currency, from $ to EUR.
NONE of price relationships between the controllers were changed.

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I tried to explain why here, but it seems easier for people to repost things without ever checking with their own brains if they are true or not.
Your problem is that persons like Ikar use their own brains and do not have to resort to yours.

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(Did you recognize that Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is denying to answer this thread ? Just beat him with his own arguments, and all there is is silence...)
Seems that I am talking into the void :(
I do not refrain from answering. Just on the contrary. I showed your mistakes and where they came in your calculation. You have doubled German VAT for Spider.

Your continued looking for split hairs is simply boring :-(
Instead of making up how to add something to the Spider's price to make it more expensive, just admit your mistake and that's it.

As regards your trick to add part of Mediator price to the price of Spider... being consequent, you should suggest adding part of the price of Zorro equipped computers (corresponding to the price of one Zorro slot) to the price of Zorro2 USB controllers. If somebody has a Zorro busboard by Micronik or Elbox, parts of their prices should be added, and so on...

Such calculation of controller's price is a clear nonsens!
It is obvious that Spider is being bought by those who have PCI slots (or PCI and Zorro slots), while Zorro2 controllers are being bought by those who do not have PCI slots. Logical and natural, isn't it?  It does not mean anything how much their computers used to be some time ago.

Just think how expensive USB controllers for Zorro2 would be for those who have only a PC machine. You should include the price of the entire Zorro equipped Amiga computer. :-)

I hope you can see absurdity of your comments to my summary.
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2003, 10:17:18 AM »
Hello Michael,

Can't you see the difference between hardware (Zorro slots, PCI slots) and software (Poseidon stack, USB stack in MacOS, USB stack in Windows)?

I am talking about the subject of this thread that is including price of USB software when USB hardware price is compared.

You are suggesting adding part of computer price when comparing price for USB controllers.
This is utter nonsense.