Status report on AmigaOS 4.2 development

[eliyahu]

@thread

i go on vacation and look what happens. :lol:

anyhoo this thread has gotten seriously derailed.  would anyone object if i moved some of the off-topic posts to a new thread?  i'd like to keep everyone's thoughts around, but the argument over the merits of this OS vs that OS should be continued elsewhere. that is, if we want to rehash the same arguments over again for the 3,597th time.

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

You see the conundrum? It's not that I DON'T want to use OS4. It's the fact that it's just not capable of what I NEED it to do, on a daily basis and for me, it's simply isn't justifiable to spend over a grand on a computer that I'm only going to turn on, very rarely, as a hobby. That being said, why am I being punished for not wanting to spend the money to purchase a machine I won't get much use out of, if at all?

Hyperion would be smart, if right now, they focused solely on porting OpenGL and getting it fixed, working and up-to-date with current standards, than anything else. When they got that done, they donate a machine or two to companies like ID, Steam, Blizzard, etc in the hopes they *MAY* (*MAY*, mind you) have a former Amiga coder willing to port a game, in his own time to the Amiga standard so Amigan's could download DRM copies of current games they wanted. (You'd be surprised how many digital artists in the game industries, like myself, that actually got their knuckles bloody on Amiga systems.) Sure, you're not going to get a CD/DVD copy with printed manuals and what not, but at least you'd be getting current games.

the software issue has been around since the late-90s. OS3, OS4, MOS, and AROS all suffer from a lack of software which is compatible with software used on mainstream platforms, like windows or linux. it's not just OS4, but OS4 gets the accusation most often because it's commercial.

in any case the good news is that hyperion are indeed working on a current OGL stack. they have been for some time, actually. the warp3D drivers A-EON commissioned are taking time away from that, but hey, money talks. lots of little things are happening behind the scenes to make the platform more attractive to developers, and OGL is just one of them. developer tools, documentation, etc., are also very important. and hardware that is performant enough to be able to even run some of the CPU-intensive applications now normal on PCs. oh, and it has to be at least somewhat affordable as well.

i don't imagine the amiga will 'return' per se, but i think it will become much better than it is today. i enjoy my NG systems because not only do they run workbench, not only do they run my classic amiga applications seamlessly, but they run them much faster. they run new, native software, some of which is terrific. and they let me do what i normally do on my PCs, but in the environment i prefer. if we could get 'em faster and cheaper, hey, that would be awesome. but when you're a hobbyist and have a passion for something, sometimes dollars aren't the most important thing.

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.

you're right. it's a serious barrier to entry. when i was interested in purchasing a next-generation amiga back in 2010, i looked around for anyone nearby with one, to no avail. the closest i could get to 'trying' one of the machines out was youtube videos, reviews online, and reading people's experiences on the fora.

in the end i took the plunge on the least expensive system out there, a SAM440ep-flex. i'm really glad i did, because i loved it and have been hooked since. but i would have been out of a few hundred smackers otherwise. the same holds true for MOS, but there you'd be hard pressed not to find someone with a compatible machine, and if you still couldn't, the lowest-cost system is a darn sight cheaper.

it really is a shame because these machines are a great amiga experience. i think they're losing out on a bunch of potential customers.

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

The 440's are no longer produced and quite frankly for as underpowered as it is, 200$ should be the NEW, purchase price, not used.

I remember when the Efika first came out. I was REALLY tempted to buy one, 'cos it was 99$. I stopped short when people said they were having problems due to the limited ram, but that's a GOOD entry level price and you got a 30 minute time limit with MorphOS. You can even still by Efika's from Directron.

they are still produced, actually. acube just did another run a few months ago and they sold out quickly. if any were available (!) you could pick them up new, with warranty, for under $350. but... that doesn't include the OS license.

This is what completely baffles me about Hyperion and how over the years, I've gradually stopped being a "Red Camp" cheerleader. Please explain this logic to me, 'cos I really don't get it. I buy a SAM for 500$. Then, I have to get a hard drive, gfx card, case, power supply. I'll say I'm using an old dell keyboard and USB IR mouse I have ('cos I have spares.) I get all this for a total of 750$. After 2 or 3 weeks, I decide that OS4 isn't for me. Well, there's no 30 day warranty. I can't "return my product for a full refund", therefore I'm stuck with it. Even if I could return it, odds are, I'm stuck paying for shipping, which is just more money out of my pocket. Only I don't want it. So, my only option is to sell it on eBay or Amibay or via Craigslist. *BUT*, I have to sell it at a loss, 'cos regardless of the fact I only used it 2 or 3 weeks, it's still *USED* and there's always a risk when you buy used. This is Amigaland, remember?

Then, there's the subject of a warranty. While I am of the 100% opinion that Amigakit would honor this: "Hey. I bought [Name]'s SAM as he didn't want it anymore. I have his original receipt, all the boxes, manuals, etc., but it seems to not be working, yet it's still under the original warranty. Can I return it?"

However, my experiences with companies like SoftHut, VisionTek and Anti-Gravity made me skeptical with Amiga Businesses. In fact, the only reason I hold Amigakit in such high regard is a) I've seen how they package their shipments b) I've seen nothing but praise about them and c) when there IS a problem, ChrisF or someone else jumps on it as quickly as possible to fix it and typically doesn't rest until they do.

i can only say that i and others have had occasion to return hardware to either acube or amigakit, and the items were repaired or replaced. acube is/was selling SAM440ep-flex systems complete with graphics card, storage, DVD drive, etc., fully assembled for around $700USD. and with a two-year warranty. i believe they also allow the systems to be returned. but, yes, you would have to pay for return shipping.

I'm NOT trolling, I'm making astute observations. I've wanted to buy an OS4 system for years, but short of the SAMs (which are still overpriced in my eyes, for what I get and I'm entitled to MY opinion), not a single piece of kit for OS4 has pushed me to go, "Oh WoW! I've just GOTTA have that!"

That is NOT fair to the end consumer and it's actually poor business logic. As I said before, there's absolutely ZERO incentive to purchase an OS4 machine, unless you just have the money to burn and are a zealot.

i don't think you are trolling. i think you are an example of several people i have talked with since being an active 'next-gen' amigan. lots of people would love to try an AOS4-based computer, but the cost of entry is too high. as for things being 'overpriced,' that's in the eye of the beholder. i was very worried my SAM would be too underpowered for much of anything, but in reality it was much more performant than i expected. the X1000 did say 'gotta have it' to me, but i ended up spending the money on something else after waiting so long to get an order link.

the good news is that the systems that are coming should be both more performant and cheaper than what we have now. but, as always in amiga-land, we're waiting. if you were in the tri-state area, i'd drive over with one of my machines so you could check it out. but that's not really something people should have to do. the VNC idea mentioned earlier seems something they should offer on request for interested parties.

if you do go for it, i think you'll be pleased with your purchase. it's just a shame there isn't a way for you to try before you buy. i don't suppose i could tempt you into joining us at amiwest this fall? there are tons of next-gen and classic amigas on display, with lots of nice people to chat with, including some of the principal movers and shakers these days. just something to keep in the back of your mind.

-- eliyahu