Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?

[Senex]

I, too, wonder what all the fuss is about here. Being at work currently I don't have the time to study it in more detail, but after a first quick read I really wonder what's going on here at amiga.org. I.e. what problem the commentators here do have with that piece of information.

There has been a thread on ANN in which someone rose the question about AmigaDE for MorphOS. This lead bbrv to mention that they still do have a valid license for AmigaDE - so that this could be a possibility if there would be someone wanting to do this project for and paid by Thendic.

Therefore I clearly can't understand all the mud-wrestling here against Thendic. Someone asked a question at ANN, Thendic replied to it - and normally that could have been all, End of Discussion.

I fail to see the point all of you here have against Thendic. Even you, Ketzer, although you at least mentioned a few points - but how could you condemn bbrv for talking about a contract nobody of the public can read and in the same moment use the very same contract yourself against them?

And again: Thendic just replied to a question regarding the possibility of AmigaDE for their products. The FUD out of it has been made by others afterwards, but clearly not by Genesi & friends.

[Senex]

Furthermore again I think it's a very good thing Thendic makes all these things public so that the community (which has been told plenty of lies in the past already - by the current Amiga Inc. as well) has a chance to make their own opinion about all this.

Nobody could control which side would say the truth if all that would only happen through "the official channels".

Thendic shows the readiness to speak about it in public, among witnesses. While Amiga Inc. & Co. seem to have reasons to don't do so...

Btw: Is the lone, orphaned Pegasos still waiting for his new daddy in Paris...?

[Senex]

@Ketzer:

Well, why can't Mr. McEwen - after already posting a comment on ANN - also comment if bbrv's claim regarding §4.2 is true or not?

And since you said it's up to the court if it's still valid or not - then WHY all those comments here on Amiga.org using the opportunity for mud-wrestling against Thendic? Stay calm then. As I said, in the beginning there just has been an answer to a question somewhere deep in a thread at ANN. Seems some AI-fans didn't like that piece of information (although basically being old news already) and THEY then started all the fuss about it.
 
So much hate and prejudices (or did you actually use a Pegasos already at an Amiga-show) against their products. Why? Fearing the "Amifan-effect"...?

Sorry, but as I said already, I fail to understand any rational reason for all this Anti-Thendic-mood here.

@Mike:

Okay, then we agree to disagree. Being liberal in general and even more after all the lies towards the Amiga community in the past, especially also by AI & Co, I prefer to get as much information aspossible in public instead of believing blindly into everything Amiga Inc. is telling me. Especially if, as in your case (as you said on ANN), my source is Mr. McEwen who's latest interview speaks for itself...

If AI tells the truth there's no need for secret "official channels" - they could answer right here and now. (As they did before.)

@ (the current) Amiga Inc.:

So, AI, does §4.2 of the mentioned contract include the usage of the Amiga trademark and patents together with the AmigaDE license or not?

[Senex]

just to make people THINK what the Name™ really means

Basically I do understand those people here at Amiga.org who cling that much to The Name. Back in earlier times, when proDAD announced their pOS, I, too, have been against it, against any split, against anything non-Amiga. But history changed my mind - especially and finally Amiga Inc.'s plain, intentional, impertinent lies in 2001.

Therefore I do know that it takes time and hurts to solve oneself from that name. The name one has fought for all those years...

But as I wrote before - and while I've been typing someone else already in more detail - Genesi actually HAS products! bplan designed and built a new motherboard. They and the whole MorphOS-Team built a PowerPC-OS continueing the AmigaOS (not in source-code but in compatibility, look & feel and spirit). And finally Thendic (not Amiga Inc.) attended many important Amiga shows, let the people play around with their products to make their own opinion about it, they supported ambitioned developers, creatives and groups with products, they CARED about the community as "Papa Petro" did in the old days. Thendic cooperates with Petro Tyschtschenko's Power Trading, have Allan Havemose on board doing the Java-VM for them, and, and, and...

To make it short: Genesi is where the action is. They develop, they design, they deliver. (Not just vapor and plain lies in interviews...)

So, as others said before: Check what YOU did this year for the AMIGA (which is way more than a trademark, given like a prostitute from one to the other) and the community, and THEN judge again over Genesi & friends!

[Senex]

@Mike:

If Mr. Buck would mainly clarify questions/statements with regard to their products, namely MorphOS/Pegasos, I would most certainly applaud this. And this would IMO mean alot of added value to such forums. Confusion hower should IMO be avoided at all cost.

Exactly. And so he did. Others made fuss about it. And the last answer he gave has been that §4.2 would prove him right. Since then there's "radio silence" from Amiga Inc. ...

[Senex]

@Desler:

It may outrange Aos 4.0 for all that I know but its still not the real thing.

But the only difference (except being available now) is that the one team had the source code as reference and the others public documentation about AmigaOS's behaviour - and the result then is the same: two OS's that are compatible to 68k-AmigaOS  and keep it's look & feel.

So really the only thing between them that's important to you is the name? Maybe, I don't know, your imagination of MorphOS is still that of a  totally alien OS like Linux or MacOS? If so, please take the opportunity to just play around with it at some Amiga show - you'll see, if someone would have told you it'd be AmigaOS4, you would have believed it immediately.

Maybe one should just accept the loss and try to marked the morphos as an independant os

As it's done. But Amiga Inc. doesn't own us, the community - they just acquired the trademark. So it's absolutely legitimate for other companies to advertise towards us for buying or even developing for their products. As others - including Gateway, QNX, Be Inc. or the current Amiga Inc. with their totally unrelated Tao stuff - did before...

[Senex]

@Ketzer:

Nitpicking. The OS is there, available for Joe Public. And the Q-Box stuff is equivalent to OS5, OS4 to the A-Box.

[Senex]

Neither can it be named AmigaOS nor does it contain parts of AmigaOS.

Sigh. So you really just want the name... Okay, your opinion, but in my opinion not rational.

The A-Box is as much "amithlon" as OS4 is.  And if you'd want, you could use parts of AmigaOS with it, it's just neither delivered with them nor are they needed.

[Senex]

For your information, MorphOS is fully compatible with AmigaOS PowerPC applications using PowerUP or WarpUP.

Just want to add the following from the latest press release for the game "Tales of Tamar":

"Tales of Tamar is now running on MorphOS for Amiga and Pegasos. It benefits form the WarpUP emulation in MorphOS, which even seems to be faster than the original."

[Senex]

@catohagen:

Neither you have to be a developer nor an experienced geek to already work with the Betatester-II package.

Furthermore that wasn't the point. The point was that something is available you can see, touch and (imagine!) even buy if you want.

OS4 (for AOne!) will still take ages - who knows what all can happen until then. Who clings to the name only may wait - that's okay, no problem for me. But this fact makes it a very valid reason for many other Amigans to forget about the name and choose what's available now and feels the same.

@HyperionMP:

Doesn't matter, that wasn't the point. We were talking about OS4.0 and MorphOS with the A-Box. And therefore the assumed lack of features the Q-Box itself currently has doesn't matter. The Q-Box should be rather compared to OS5 or the very, very least a much later 4.x-version than 4.0. Therefore the argument aiming at the Q-Box was void.

[Senex]

It is very unlikely that MorphOS would run native AmigaOS4 applications anytime soon.

Who cares? It will still take a long time until OS4 will run on the AmigaOne (and therefore for OS4-only apps). Just because integrating the 68k-emu and all the different components takes much time and reveals many new problems. Just look at the progress the MorphOS-team made - they as well needed very much time for these steps.

And if you'd need such a OS4-application really badly, you could still code an A4-Box for MorphOS.  ;-)

[Senex]

beta software that is not in general release

But will be in - oops, that famous quote - "two more weeks" in Aachen on Dec. 7/8th, while of OS4 currently just the kernel is running on the AmigaOne.

So, again: we were - nitpicking of exact dates aside - just talking about the fact that MOS is ahead of OS4 and that therefore it's a legitimate reasoning for many people to choose from two (except for the name) absolutely comparable products the one hitting the market significantly earlier.

want to run my favorite Amiga OS PowerPC applications

As was said, there won't be - if at all - any OS4-only versions of your favorite applications in the near future. And all the other stuff, including Power-Up and WarpOS PPC software, is running on MorphOS already.

So maybe a better approach would be to have a look at your current favorite applications in detail and see if you could still run them on Pegasos / MorphOS.

For example some programs I have mainly used are Voyager (runs, even a MOS-version is available), Microdot-2 (same here), Miami (runs), MakeCD (runs very well - and faaast), FinalWriter97 (okay, has currently a little refresh prob, but that will certainly be fixed till the consumer release), etc. pp.

To make it short: Since I have my Pegasos, I just continued to use all my favorite software as I've been used to. Just faster. While on the AmigaOne I'd still need Linux-UAE for some time...

[Senex]

I don't care how "Amiga-Ish" it is, or how much in "spirit" it is.

In opposite to your opinion about me this is no problem for me - everybody has his very own opinion and that's fine.

I just don't like if people are said to be be no Amigans anymore just because they favour an absolutely amigaish product that just doesn't have "The Name".

And reagarding OS4 release dates: I think it's too obvious that of course I don't know when it will be released. But as I mentioned above my estimation is an educated guess from comparing the time the MorphOS-team needed.

Okay, enough for today, I'm leaving for home.

[Senex]

Because Amiga needs one unified direction to move forward, not half a dozen different variations that are all doing thier own thing.

As I said already, in previous times I thought the same. pOS? No, no split! Etc. Hey, even when they wanted to create a MorphOS-Newsgroup, I voted - as still is documented - AGAINST it. Just no further splitting...!

But much time has passed. Products came from Genesi, lies from Amiga Inc. And especially incompetence in that very one important function the respective owner of the Amiga trademark has to fulfill: leadership. The ability to lead the projects, the development and the users of the Amiga market.

So in my opinion Amiga Inc. lost any right to claim their way as the only one.

Okay, finally - veeery late - they reconsidered regarding the option of a PPC-AmigaOS (instead of DE only), and again much time later they gave the project into the hands of people who seem to be able to finally create an OS4.

BUT, and that is the second point, in the meantime - while of OS4 currently just the kernel is running on the AmigaOne -, there already is a product purchaseable that could, from the look&feel etc., as well be called "AmigaOS4".

Therefore - all the lost time in all the years since Commodore's bankruptcy and AI's many changes in direction in the past, etc. - and because we all do know how much could happen suddenly until OS4 really would be released (Who doubted Gateway would bring us a new, modern AmigaOS, for example?), some people, like me, prefer today, in 2002, to choose that option that's actually here and represents all we ever wanted.