UFOs - Are ALL these people crazy?

[Karlos]

Well, as the U stands for "unidentified", until you know exactly what you are looking at sailing on overhead, you have seen them :-)

If you think how long it takes from the design phase, to the prototype phase to the production phase of any modern aircraft, military applications of which aren't generally open to public scrutiny, you can imagine that people living within the flight range of any airforce base may see things easily attributed to aliens.

Can you imagine what the first civilian sightings of the F117 must have been like? :-D

[Karlos]

CannonFodder wrote:
There is no empirical evidence to suggest that there are sentient lifeforms other than humans in the universe.

There is none to suggest the inverse either.

The total lack of any artificial radio signals so far is dissapointing, though we've not been listening long.

Finding life elsewhere in the solar system even if only the most primitive imaginable, provided it can be demonstrated it is not terrestrial contamination, the likelyhood of life existing elsewhere in the universe increases significantly.

[Karlos]

@JaX

Actually, there is a flipside argument also that leads to the exact opposite conclusion :-D

Have a look here for an overview of the "Rare Earth" hypothesis.

It takes the same basic pretext as the Drake equation, but adds a lot more parameters. As with any calculation based on factor multiplication, the probability falls off pretty quick.

I'm not saying which one I go for; each argument has its merits and weaknesses.

Either way, finding life elsewhere in our own "back yard" dramatically helps the case for life elsewhere in the universe.

[Karlos]

@JaX

Fundamentally, the problem with both models is that nobody knows all of the contributary factors. Of those they do know of, or can guess at, there simply isn't enough information to make a reliable estimate, so it comes down to conjecture.

So far, the only model of life we have is terrestrial and the only place we know it exists is right here on Earth, which depending on which factors you take into consideration is either a quite probable planetary configuration all the way down to an almost unique one.

Therefore, finding life elsewhere in the solar system alone would make a huge difference to our baseline knowledge about the prospects of finding life anywhere else. The spectrum of environments in the solar system is probably far better represented in the local universe we know about than just our wee green belt bit.

[Karlos]

@CannonFodder

I do believe there are other worlds. I can count at least 7 more and god knows how many minor ones within our Sun's heliopause alone.

I just don't know how many are teeming with life.

[Karlos]

Getting OT:

CannonFodder wrote:

Karlos wrote:
@CannonFodder

I do believe there are other worlds. I can count at least 7 more and god knows how many minor ones within our Sun's heliopause alone.

So "Lord of all the worlds" means just of the planets, and not of inhabited planets?

What are you saying he isn't equally lord of all the uninhabited ones? :-P

In that case, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are mine. I'll make a fortune when we mine them for volatiles in a few centuries :-D

As far as I know, "alameen" is more encompasing than just "worlds" anyway. It encompasesses the totality of all that exists.