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Author Topic: Accurate reporting? Yeah right!!  (Read 3977 times)

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Offline Karlos

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Re: Accurate reporting? Yeah right!!
« on: November 11, 2006, 04:17:58 PM »
For those of us that are not well versed in ballistics, perhaps you could expand on that "in the know" guffaw at the article.

To me, it looks like a round of live ammunition from a firearm of some description.

If I were to find something like it, what should I do? I would assume not repeatedly smacking it with a six inch nail in any small indentation I find on the base whilst looking at the head from the other side would be a start ;-)
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Accurate reporting? Yeah right!!
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 04:55:58 PM »
Regardless of the technical issues obvious to someone such as yourself, is it a proper for someone like me to assume that were I to find what appears to be an unfired round of ammunition to treat it as potentially dangerous?

I'm not so ignorant as to believe just manually handling it normally would be a risk but I imagine a curious person (read bored kid) might make a serious mistake trying to see what is inside?
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Accurate reporting? Yeah right!!
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 08:56:43 PM »
@X-Ray

I understand the difference between a bullet and an unfired cartridge. This seems to be a semantic issue, really. A bullet was found (albeit still in the cartridge).

I can see that the story is factually ropey but the main point seemed to be about the fact the thing was found, not exactly what it was.

Quote

The bullet, of Swiss origin, was still in its brass casing, complete with enough gunpowder for it to fire itself.

Okay here they change their tune and say the bullet was in a case, but the rest is crap. Firstly there is no way to determine how much powder is in the cartridge just by looking at it. It may not even have powder in it. It may not even have primer compound. And it definitely can't fire itself.


I can only assume this is mostly down to a bad use of english (and lack of specific knowledge), but I assume it meant the cartridge could conceivably detonate if tampered with. Due to the lack of a barrel and the associated gas powered acceleration of the actual bullet, I have no real idea how dangerous this would be, but at very close range I can only assume it is potentially quite dangerous. I dpn't think they meant to imply it could literally "fire itself" :-D

As for the contents, upon finding a seemingly complete round of ammunition, is there any reason to assume it isn't actually what it appears to be? I would imagine that live ammunintion vastly outnumbers any other kind and therefore, if you find something like that in an unexpected place (ie not in a cabinet full of someone's private munitions collection) it's statistically a lot more likely to be live than not, right?

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Mr Khan said that if it had been struck hard enough or exposed to heat it could have gone off.

Not the paper's fault, this is Khan's lack of knowledge. Firstly the .22 short is a rimfire cartridge and therefore has to be struck on the rim at the back before it will discharge. Secondly, tests have been done to determine how much heat is required to set these off, and it is quite a bit. For example it won't go off if left in a hot car or on a hot pavement.  Even if it does goes off (let's say somebody set it off by means of a blowtorch) there is little chance for injury. The item most likely to cause injury is the case, not the bullet. This has been proven in house fires where ammunition has been involved.


Surely the guy was just expressing his concern. Like I said, if it were thoughtlessly tampered with, surely it could be dangerous.

If I found a seemmingly unused round of ammunition here, I'd be pretty concerned too. Now, as this guy is reported to be a member of a gun club you could say he ought to know more about munitions than he appears to.

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It was live, primed and active," he said.

Not the paper's fault, Kahn's fault. He had no way of knowing whether it was a live cartridge or not. It is not a centerfire cartridge so he cannot comment on whether it is primed or not. Even if it was a centerfire cartridge with an intact primer cup, there is no way of telling whether there is primer compound within the cup, without opening the cartridge or discharging it (firing it).


Ok, but as I say, is there a valid reason to assume it isn't a complete round? Statistically, what is the likelyhood of it being something... I don't know... ornamental?

The last issue is, what was it doing lying around in the doorway?
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Accurate reporting? Yeah right!!
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 11:08:53 AM »
Armed Robber: Twenty-seven pence? F*** off. There's more than that in the till.

Mr Logic: Indeed, undoubtedly so. However your request was for *my* money. The currency in the till belongs to a third party and is therefore not "my money". However, if you are still desirous of said money I would suggest that you re-phrase your original statement to recognise and incorporate this important distinction.
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