Given x1000 news is everywhere.....but nonchalance prevails

[DAX]

@the_leander
Look I leaved the Amiga scene around 96/97 (ah, bought my A2000 in 1988 )  but my business were GPUs (I dealt with Elsa and 3Dlabs) so let me tell you, HOMBRE might have been on par with certain options day one if it made day one, even less options after 3 months, and dead obsolete after a few more months and that's ONLY IF it existed (read: it NEVER existed, wasn't even close to completion).
What part of "it wasn't completed and thus it would have been surpassed several folds if they continued to drag on it" you do not understand? ()

Look I'm tired, I will repeat again the x1000 is a premium machine aimed at developers (and Power users with no budget constraints).
it is not uderpowered at all for an Amiga machine, it actually sports a better than G5 CPU, and when you buy it you are not searching a bargain,+ mainstream is not a target.

Let me just say (and I'm finished) that those that will buy it will not do so with your money, so you may relax a little bit

[DAX]

Which part of your "gpu business" dealt with the console market, exactly?
Playstation 1, released 1994 was still being actively developed for some  10 years after its initial launch and is one of the most popular games  consoles ever to have been sold.

Do you think for one second that the PS1 had state of the art graphics  even a week after its release? No, it didn't. Did it make a blind bit of  difference to it's success? Not in the slightest.

You've tried repeatedly to conflate AAAs target market (mainstream  computing) with Hombres (a games console concept), you can stop now.

1st) I was taking in consideration your fabled HP-Hombre WinNT computer (which might have dealt with GPUs very much),
2nd)You might be unaware that GPUs at the time derived from SGI technology papers and that Nintendo64 (same generation-1996) uses one of those GPUs for openGL acceleration.
In 1998 the Dreamcast came out using a PowerVR GPU. (but again I had in mind your "phantomatic" Hombre computer there, read more about consoles below).

In the computer market, sure, which is why AAA and your "future amiga" got canned. But as a games console the system would have been a fine competitor. I'm well aware of the fact that Commodore folded, but I'm not the one claiming that the Hyperion (with all the crap they've pulled over the years) and an as yet untested and unproven AEON are better for the Amiga market than Commodore.

Sure, and I said that it was so late they would've dragged it until it was probably 1 year earlier than DC if C= didn't fold (which would have kicked its a*rse big time not to mention PCs were getting Nivida love by that time). If it was released in time sure, but I never argued about it, go re-read what i wrote, all I said was, they were "late" which is a fact regardless of C= status, and by time it would have been ready for "REAL" it would have been obsolete.

Power users? Where? Seriously where are these mystical power users with more money than sense all going to mysteriously appear from? And even if they do, as gazgod points out, wtf are they going to run on it? An Alpha of Firefox and Blender simply do not cut it!

I still get the impression you are somewhat exited...
Anyway (@Gazgod too) they have already 150 people booked for 100 beta systems so they will have to discard 50 of them, but try to understand once and for all a simple fact: all they plan, is to sell a limited number of machines, get their money back+some and re-invest.
That's it.
You should visit other sites every once in a while you will meet many of this guys...(not to mention all those that solely post in their own country due to language barrier).

If your offering to these mythical power users is an early firefox port and blender, the question then is, why bother with OS4 when you can do that faster for a tenth of the price on a PC?

Enthusiast with enough money or will do it just for fun (early adopters type), and they will be the first to enjoy what the developers will do with the machine.

[DAX]

@the Leander
About the delay I was talking about HOMBRE (AAA was scrapped, but Haynie in 1995 admitted Hombre was totally unfinished, any part of it wasn't even near completion) .

On the X1000 thing you got me wrong there, all I wanted to say is that it is the way it would have gone, with all the things  going on at Commodore there would have not be any Chipset Amiga released. Even considering a Hombre PC, you wouldn't call a winNT machine running on incompatible chip-set an Amiga, and as i told you PA-Risc support would have been changed soon for x86 as Microsoft dropped support, moreover they were so late with hombre according to Haynie, that by the time this fabled Hombre PC would be out, they had better used an off the shelf GPU as they were evolving at incomparable speed.

X1000 is as good as anything Commodore would have done if they didn't fold, as they were late with chipsets and due to the ongoing GPU battle (with new designs every 3 months) chipsets would have gone the way of the dodo just the same.

[DAX]

man it was you who said C= was going to drop AOS and built a WinNT PC that used both hombre chipset and PA-Risc CPU or i would have never mentioned it.
My point is very simple: C= would have never ever released a new Amiga based on any chipset, as they were late with development even if they didn't go bankrupt.
The choice was among Amiga unrelated products, or modular designs that would have to favor GPUs instead of chipsets as they were too slow in developing them (missing every possible deadline) and GPUs were immensely faster as far as development cycles were concerned at that point in time.
Missing a deadline would mean a 2 or 4X speed increase in the GPU departments, and you can't compete with that
So if they had made a new Amiga it was modular+GPU as for consoles we already agreed about the fact that if Hombre was released in time to compete with PSX it could have been good, but they weren't even close, and quite frankly i don't even care as I loved amiga OS2.1 on my A2000 back then, running my copy of LW3D and TVpaint3.4 and couldn't care less about incompatible chipsets C= missed to make for his consoles (a fully boxed personal computer).

Most probably there would have not being any new Amiga personal computer at all (just a PA-Risc PC and an incompatible Playstation contender) so with the X1000 we got lucky, as at least we're getting something.

[DAX]

And the only reason I stated what I did was because of this:

Which is patently untrue for the reasons already given.

perfect then, patently untrue, however you know what I really meant as per my previous post.

[DAX]

As I told you you should visit AW and other sites, the "vision" Amiga.org is giving you is quite distorted as far as your conception of "the rest of the community".
Many did grow up professionally with AmigaOS I had 040-RTG-and more, we want our personal back, we don't think at Amiga as a gaming console as many classic aficionados confine it to be.

[DAX]

Amiga.org: 7,155 members.
AW.net: 4,428 members.
Amigans.net: 1205 (of which only 300 visits in a month)

Amiga.org is all about all aspects of Amiga. All true Amigans are here. This site isn't about forcing some view about "what is Amiga" onto people; people here are perfectly capable of having their own views on that. It's a true community site, not a marketing site for one particular product, and thus the most relevant site for all things Amiga.

AW.net was created with the sole purpose to suppress/censor any other views than that everyone should buy products from Eyetech and Hyperion. Deleted posts, deleted threads, deleted user accounts was the way they enforced this "truth".

When Perestroika finally made its way to AW.net, the same clowns that once were behind the "exodus" to AW.net, tried a new exodus to amigans.net, to be able to continue the same policy. And look how well that went.

So don't come here lecturing others about "distorted views on Amiga.org", you child of propaganda. Allowing a multitude of voices, views and opinions is the very *remedy* for distorted views.

I'm afraid it is no longer like that, moreover you must be precise with your information.

First Amigans.net is the only Amiga board that performs continuos inactive accounts clean ups, they were at almost 1300, went below 1000 after many clean ups, and now they are back at 1205.

Yes many do not visit often but those are 1205 active accounts.

AW.net and Amiga.org however have accounts that are not used since ages (and will probably never be used ever again) not to mention that with past wars, who knows how many trolls built second accounts just to post under different identity (this appens everywhere but these accounts get cleaned at Amigans).

That said, if the AmigaOS4 community en mass, decided to dwell elsewhere, you will still NOT get the whole picture here.

I see the same number of MOS and AROS users participating at AW , as I see here (actually more) while there is not even a tiny fraction of AW's AmigaOS4 population here.

Morover ALL moderators there are NOT AmigaOS only people, most have MOS and fairlanefastback while being an adamant AROS fan, owns all of them.

So how can this be the only board an Amigan (of any flavor) should frequent?

I believe that you and the_leander have a problem with them, but quite frankly it is not so for every other MOS, AROS and classic users which all happily participate.

Sorry but you do need to visit all boards to get the whole picture, and you cannot speak about the WHOLE community (and say Aos4 supporters are just a few, as I heard here) when you never go out of your usual circle.

[DAX]

Inactive accounts clean-ups are performed regularly (sometimes after 30 days from previous one, sometimes after 3 months, sometimes after 6 months) so all indicated accounts are active members.
Talk me about amiga.org recent clean ups (none? thought so ).

Look, let's not turn this into another piss*ing contest, when you said that "just you and few others" would enjoy the X1000, I simply told you to look outside to find out that Aos users are not in the small numbers you see here.
I see no "whole" community here, many Classic aficionados, a limited number of MOS users and, what, like 6 Aos users?

Come on, you gotta accept that a big part of the Amiga community doesn't visit here anymore (although they have old unused accounts), and even MOS and AROS users frequent AW far more often.

Don't blame me for that.

[DAX]

@TakeMeHomeMama
People might be happily discussing about AOS and you waltz in saying HOW Mos is better.
Sure it has its benefits, and if the OP is interested, why not choose MOS instead? That's fine, however turning every OS4 thread into a petty competition only lead to the usual guys (old timers) fighting it out, the OP loses interest, and leave.
When I see this i generally waltz in myself with statements such as "people like to think of amiga as AmigaOS running on a custom computer not as a hermit crab that runs on Apple scraps" on purpose, just to show how ugly it can get if you keep the harsh competition up (and in particular, talking about my first 2 hours here, I also checked in to see what moderators do here to avoid what i believe will scare away EVERYONE from NG Amiga solutions).
You said I didn't like the arguments and cryed for mods, so i argued a little more...
Remember that the minor adjustments to OS4.1 are finished and after the X1000 port, all they will have as "work" will be the much needed 3D subsystem replacement (and other modernizations such as SMP)but as I already said,  If in the future AOS gets a full Mesa port and new 3D drivers, i won't  come here saying "look MOSSERS, shove that 64MB vram c*ap up your a*se  now" in any thread some ex Amigan gone mac, asks about MorphOS for his Mac hardware.

It's not the way to go if we want back comers, both AOS and MOS, try to understand that.


@gazgod

I see I steered some waters, but quite frankly I saw my share of biased and ill informed opinions durin those "call outs" (as you called them) with no proof whatsoever presented to corroborate them.
"ill informed", here is a summary of what I've been saying regarding "classics" and amiga possible evolution (which leads to NG Amigas) Correct me if I'm wrong (I am an open person):

We know the A1000 was a game console which was then decided to be turned into a computer, we also know that for how advanced it was it was very expensive and C= sold very little, with no SW made to use its real power (at that time, I mean, 1985).
At the time the A500 came out, C= missed the first of many trains by ditching the Ranger chipset (to which also Miner had worked on) and we know that by 1994, C= decided to scrap Amiga for good.
We also know that the "last" Amiga (hombre was no Amiga) they talked about at 1993 devcon was to have the AAA chip-set as a modular interchangeable board, the whole project was ditched, we know that, but if for a moment we want to forecast what would have happened in case they made it, we can clearly see that by 1996/97 off the shelf GPUs, which were advancing at the pace of a new chip every 3 months at the time (from 10 different companies) would have replaced any chip-set C= had in mind (with the difference that in the A4000 adding an RTG card still leaves the old chipset there, with that new Amiga, after taking AAA away, there would be no GFX chipset left inside the machine) and by today any Amiga would use Ati or Nvidia GPUs (there was no competing with that evolution speed, too fast).
Amiga in 1994 was already only good as a media authoring workstation (2D/3D/Video) with a very little (if any) place in the gaming market.
Then Commodore failed, Amiga went from Escom (first purchaser) to Amiga Inc. (last)
Amiga Inc. wanted to divide its Amiga business in their "anywhere idea" and a more classic rendition of the platform (new AmigaOne HW running AmigaOS4), and this latter part, has been legally handed over to Hyperion in the last settlement.

We go on and on, but the bottom line is, don't be surprised if adult amigans that grew up professionally with it (accelerator cards, RTG, mediators and whatnot) and understand that the abandonment of magic chipsets, was inevitable, see the X1000 as a new Amiga workstation, they weren't using such chipsets since for-ever anyway (they used their Picasso, V-Lab Motion and Video Toasters instead) and they would love to use a modern one again (some might chose MOS which is also an excellent choice with great merit).
Saying "it's no amiga" because of the absence of magical chipsets, with how the world evolved since then, it's rather pointless quite frankly.

AOS MOS and AROS machines, are Amiga, not 1985 console Amiga, but NG Amiga personal computers that allow you (or "aim to" as a future goal) to do modern computing the Amiga way.

I know the "Amiga way" for many here has just been insert the floppy and auto-load the game, but for many others it was more than that. NG Amigas are aimed at this second group.

@pyromania
it is unfortunate that the majority of AOS4 users went away, and it doesn't help that there are more MOS and AROS users posting at AW than here.
When we talk next gen I see more pluralism there due to the above simple fact, here however there is the healthiest classic users population, which makes this a very popular site nonetheless.
Things can improve though, like me, many AOS4 users would post here if we avoid doing what i told TMHM above which makes things ugly and scares away back comers (MHO of course).
Anyway, I for starters am here to stay