Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[AmigaHeretic]

Nobody seems to disagree with this, not even Cloanto. Maybe someone should contact them and ask if such a service (using real floppy disks!) can be set up?

There's the problem.  The smart thing to do, and I'm sure Cloanto would love to would be to put the ADF's up for like 50 cents a disk DL.  Pick any disk pay $0.50.  Get a whole OS for like $2.50.  Everyone is happy!!  Wouldn't have to even deal with Franko and his ISP.

Why don't Cloanto do this?

Dum Duh Dummm!!!!

Because there is no COPYRIGHT holder!!  Cloanto have no license to do this type of service AND they have no way to get a new license to do this because no one exists any longer that can give new licenses.


My guess is a last ditch effort to keep this a secret?  That is the only thing I can think of.

[AmigaHeretic]

And Franko didn't bother to ask them, as they have requested in their FAQ... Have you contacted them?

It's fair use.  

Don't agree it's fair use?  Well, have Cloanto tried to contacted him to speak about it?


EDIT:
And second of all why, would you think to even contact Cloanto?  I mean they are not the copyright holder.  That would be one of the last people I would have thought, maybe Amiga Inc though.  But if you contact Cloanto, then you have to contact AmigaKit and so on....  where does it end?  But Cloanto?  They don't even sell disks for real Amigas.

[AmigaHeretic]

By which definition? Commentary? Criticism? News reporting? Research? Teaching? Parody?

Oh look you asked!  Did Cloanto?


That was the point in my reply.

[AmigaHeretic]

They DO have rights to it, and that appears to be the problem most people have with them!

They have the rights to "distribute" it just like a 10,000 stores have the right to distribute MS Windows.

If I want to distribute Windows why would I contact Wal-Mart?


I wouldn't, I would contact MS.  That is who Franko should have contacted.

The problem is WHO IS MS in this case?  That IS the question Franko trying to answer. Do you get that?


Now, it's sad if Cloanto feel their toes are being stepped on (personally I don't think they have lost a single $ in sales over this. Roms are not uploaded and the whole AF can be dl'ed anywhere anyway, go after those guys).


The whole point was to see if the "Copyright" holder even exists and would come out of the wood work.

So far this has not happened.    How is this so confusing?

[AmigaHeretic]

So if I want to distribute Workbench disks who should I contact?

[AmigaHeretic]

Good question. It is however beside the point.

How is that beside the point!?  People are chastising Franko for not contacting Cloanto.  

So if a person wants to distribute Workbench disks are they are they not suppose to contact Cloanto?  Are we changing the story now?


So to get a license I do or I do not contact Cloanto?  I'm soooo confused now.

[AmigaHeretic]

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

That's the second part of the issue.  I don't think Franko was claiming Fair Use, I was just throwing that out there as a "who knows" because Cloanto never bothered to ask apparently on what grounds Franko was putting the disks up.

Honestly I don't know what grounds Franko put them up.  I do know, that as far as Workbench 3.0 goes there is a strong case to be made it was put into Public Domain by Petro.   I didn't just "somehow" happen as you keep saying, the man did it while in control of the company.  It's documented and all over the Internet now for a decade and a half.

[AmigaHeretic]

I don't know.


Who?


Beats me.

So you contact AI from links/email their webpage for 6 months and no replies.

You contact Petro from his facebook, and get bad translations that says, "I give free long time ago."

You find no other records.

You put the disks up on a site for people with old rotting disks for some obsolete turd machines to DL to make backups from.


You get crapped on.


Hmmmm..... seems fair.

[AmigaHeretic]

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

 Brilliant!

I ask you repeatedly who to contact, and you go, "uhh, err..."

Then even when pointed out people were contacted just to be nice, you say, STUPID!!

Again then, if I want to distribute Workbench disks Piru, who should I contact?  


3rd times a charm?

[AmigaHeretic]

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

Seriously though, morality and legality hardly ever meet. It sucks, but such is life.. unfair.

Do you know if there is a legal problem Piru?

The Copyright holder has made no claims and has not come forward. FACT.

Maybe the copyright owner approves of Franko posting the images for all you know.  Maybe before your chastise you should "Contact the copyright holders".  Have you done this?

[AmigaHeretic]

I don't know.

Again I should point out that regardless what you might consider moral thing to do might not necessarily be legal.

Maybe what you think is immoral by Franko may not be illegal.

[AmigaHeretic]

I answered that question two weeks ago.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=635372&postcount=114

I assume that is a joke.  Try emailing that asking for a license to Workbench 3.1 and prior.  You will get no response. Ever.  Emails don't bounce, so I assume it goes somewhere.

[AmigaHeretic]

Does Franko have permission from the copyright holder to distribute Workbench disks?

If he doesn't, it's illegal.

It's really as simple as that.

I think he would say yes.  I think he bases it on documentation from various Commodore sources, up to and including Petro.  There is various source supporting that Commodore basically considered the Workbench free to distribute and ended up letting anyone include the files on disks and eventually CDs.  The thought being, you already own OUR machine and OS, so you aren't copying anything anyway! Duh!  They sold ROMs and they sold physical disk and manuals, but distribution and copying was fine.  The entire disk themselves were released for some versions to public domain as well.

So yes, I believe Franko "believes" he has permission and "legal" right to have the disk available for legal owners of the OS to download and make backups.

Does he have the legal right?  I DON'T KNOW?  Do you know.  No you don't.

The only one that would know may be the Copyright holder!  If they disagree. (Which as this point they haven't said they do).  Then they could either tell Franko, or his ISP, or just take him to court.

So far it appears the Copyright holders agrees that Franko does have a right to distribute the disks.  Who are you to say otherwise exactly?

[AmigaHeretic]

Does Franko have permission from the copyright holder to distribute Workbench disks?

If he doesn't, it's illegal.

It's really as simple as that.

I think he would say yes.  I think he bases it on documentation from various Commodore sources, up to and including Petro.  There is various source supporting that Commodore basically considered the Workbench free to distribute and ended up letting anyone include the files on disks and eventually CDs.  The thought being, you already own OUR machine and OS, so you aren't copying anything anyway! Duh!  They sold ROMs and they sold physical disk and manuals, but distribution and copying was find.  The entire disk themselves were released for some versions to public domain as well.

So yes, I believe Franko "believes" he has permission and "legal" right to have the disk available for legal owners of the OS to download and make backups.

Does he have the legal right?  I DON'T KNOW?  Do you know?  No you don't.

The only one that would know may be the Copyright holder!  If they disagree. (Which as this point they haven't said they do).  Then they could either tell Franko, or his ISP, or just take him to court.

So far it appears the Copyright holders agrees that Franko does have a right to distribute the disks.  Who are you to say otherwise exactly?

[AmigaHeretic]

+1

Totally agree, the old Operating systems should have been released for free years ago. But I don't see why attacking Cloanto for providing a legal route to get them makes them a bad company!

They ARE NOT a legal route to get them --for people with REAL hardware--

read -->http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

They have made themselves and impediment.


You have to have ROMs to have an emulated environment right?  The disk alone do you no good.  Franko has no ROMs up.  He is not providing an alternative to Cloanto's product.  The disks do nothing if you want an emulator.  You still need to pirate the ROM's  If you are going to pirate ROM's it will probably already come in a torrent called "amiga_forever_craxord-2011-torrent-blah blah".

I could definitely see Cloanto being pissed if the ROMs were being offered with the disks.  But, 1, they are not.  2, as has been stated, the ADF disks they are offering are not licensed to use on real Amiga's and some images "differ" from the REAL Commodore disks.

[AmigaHeretic]

Wow finally someone who knows where I can legally purchase Workbench 3.1 disks, this is good news, please share this with the rest of the community for future reference...

PS: I know I can purchase 3.1 ROMS from AmigaKit but not the Workbench 3.1 disks...

Here I'll say it before someone else does for the 1000th time.

Just by Amiga Forever from Cloanto and get the ADF's for your real Amiga!

What? They are licensed for emulators only!!?!? --> http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

Oh, maybe we should have a repository when you can get original "UN-moddified" Workbench disks only (no ROM images so people still have to buy Amiga Forever for emulation purposes)  so people that need disks can find them.  

People that pull their old molded Amiga's out of their attic and try to find a Working floppy image to play around with 15 or 20 years later must think it's bat shit insane that there are a few crazy people holding on to a hundred Kilobytes of dead IP with such a death grip.