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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« on: October 29, 2012, 04:20:20 PM »
Up until fall 2009, MorphOS supported only the following hardware: Pegasos 1, Pegasos 2, Efika 5200.

While being good quality hardware, they never offered the performance of similar PPC based machines at the time. Sure, the Pegasos 2 is faster than the AmigaOne's from Eyetech, and slightly faster than a Sam 460 clocked at the same frequency (in some areas more than others), but a Mac Mini G4 @ 1.42GHz has been measured to be almost 2x as fast in some areas than a Pegasos 2. The older Pegasos 1, and the kind of limited Efika 5200 fell even further behind in comparisons of course.

These machines were also being manufactured in relatively small numbers before their production ended forever, thus putting an upper limit on potential growth for MorphOS. The limited availability (and increased demand from OS4 users) was also making them expensive even at the second hand market, thus failing to give a "Bang for the Buck" ratio comparable to second hand Mac HW.

The MorphOS 2.x branch evolved, and when it reached v2.4, the MorphOS Team introduced support for their first Mac PPC machine, the Mac Mini. Two things happened with this:

  • There was an instant (but temporary) jump in the number of licenses sold. Many of those probably came from already existing MorphOS users sitting on the fence to upgrade from Pegasos/Efika to faster Mac HW.
  • There was also a permanent increase in the pace of new registrations sold, the tilt of the growth graph went steeper, and this was not temporary.
During the 2.5 years that followed, MorphOS evolved, new features and improvements were being added, and support for eMac and PowerMac was introduced.

Early this summer, MorphOS 3.0 was released with many new improvements and features. One of the most anticipated features was that MorphOS for the first time added support for a real Laptop computer in the shape of the PowerBook (the 5 latest models produced by Apple). Again, two things happened with this:

  • There was an instant (but temporary) jump in the number of licenses sold. Many of those probably came from already existing MorphOS users sitting on the fence to get a PowerBook laptop.
  • There was also (as it seems today) a permanent increase in the pace of new registrations sold, the tilt of the growth graph went even steeper than before.
Here is a picture (based on "koszer's" excellent trackings of MorphOS licenses sold, click to make it larger):



We can easily see how some events both gave a temporary jump in amount of registrations sold, but also an increase in the unit sales pace in a more permanent manner.

From when MorphOS was only available on those "custom", low volume motherboards, made by a small company, untill today when MorphOS is available for various second hand mainstream HW (including laptops), the growth rate in MorphOS license sales has gone from ~11 per month, to more than 1 per day, in what appears to be a lasting, permanent way.

If the graph will indeed be continuing as it has done since the latest "temporary jump", it will mean that MorphOS will have crossed the "2000 licenses sold" mark during August next year.

On the other hand, had it remained on the limited availability, small company HW with poor bang/buck ratio, then August 2013 would probably have meant a maximum of 1100 licenses sold, provided that the sales graph would have remained the same during all these years, which is unlikely, given the limited numbers of machines produced, machines breaking down, the Pegasos/Efika market for MorphOS probably being kind of saturated back in 2009 already, and the fact that the performance of those boards were kind of low even back by 2004 standards, so closer to 600 licenses sold (or somewhere slightly above) seems more likely.

This "August 2013" difference will largely be thanks to the MorphOS Team's smart decision of going for the second hand Mac PPC market, aiming for mainstream rather than small company custom HW, making the most out of what PPC had to offer when it comes to performance (only G5 machines are faster) and flavors of the HW; we have big-box expandable PowerMac (up to 2GHz with 3rd party accellerator cards), tiny but quite powerful Mac Mini, and of course, the Laptops in the shape of PowerBook. Ibook is coming in the next release. On MorphZone.org we have seen several new faces, not only Amigans cross-migrating from "other camps", but actually a few coming from "outside".

Why do I say this? Isn't all of this obvious?

I'm afraid not. There are still people (yes, in 2012) advocating in favor of expensive, poor bang/buck, low volume, custom built by small cellar-based companies, Hardware. This is the route the OS4 team took, and while the MorphOS sales figures probably wouldn't impress anyone outside the "Amiga Market", I highly doubt that OS4 can present a sales graph and sales growth rate pace that even slightly resembles the picture above.

Imagine if MorphOS had been on even more mainstream and powerful HW, like x86. Now it isn't, and since it's currently locked to PPC, it has been a great decision of making the most out of it by supporting the old mainstream HW that is available from everywhere at peanut money.

The MorphOS Team did it right!

:)

(Note: The graphs I drew on top of Koszer's are not based on calculations, they are hand drawn, and all numbers I have put in there are interpretations from the graphics, not number data. This should be good enough for trend spotting though. The original picture is of course based on pure statistics! :))
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 04:48:13 PM »
Quote from: alexh;713069
Apple were not the last company to produce mainstream PowerPC based hardware but most since have been "locked" i.e. Xbox360, Wii, Wii-U, Playstation3 etc. and unlikely to get ports of MorphOS.

So what is instore for the future for Mainstream HW for MorphOS? Support for emulators such as QEMU and PearPC?

Should it attempt to "unlock" itself from the PowerPC architecture?


Well, the PPC is unarguably dead as a desktop/laptop architecture.

The Mac HW will of course have much to offer MorphOS for quite some time still, but we will inevitable reach a point in the future where MorphOS basically have two options:

1) Roll over and die
2) Migrate to an architecture with a pulse (<- Link! ;))

Who knows what will happen in the future, if a migration will really take place? But at least for now, I'm quite happy to run MorphOS 3.1 on my Mac Mini!

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 05:32:12 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;713072
Only a simple question to you. It is a nice graph with a "booming" MorphOS community but where are the users that are registrating their systems? On Morphzone are not many new users visible. How do you explain that?

:confused:

I wasn't talking about numbers of users, neither people's choice of forums, or the difference in activity on various web forums spread out in the community. Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net has more activity than MorphZone.org, much thanks to more registered users and more "IRC-style" posting.

Edit:
To answer your question: I suppose we are on *all* those forums (and many others as well, there are many local forums in the world as well, and there is no law saying you are required to do a lot of postings online just because you run a certain OS)! Who cares?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 05:37:54 PM by takemehomegrandma »
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 05:48:38 PM »
@Iggy

OMG, where on earth did all that come from? Having a bad day? Then please don't take it out on me, and please don't try to change the topic already!

:whack:
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 06:01:17 PM »
@OlafS3

Indeed MorphOS is PPC based, and AROS is not MorphOS. The MorphOS team has made the very best out of the situation by supporting the Mac HW. Why the flames? What's your point?

:confused:

Running MorphOS on PPC Mac HW is *great*, it's way ahead of any "competition" no matter CPU architecture, it's by far the best, most feature rich and competent Amiga NG option available. And the HW price usually ranges from Free - $250, which is a very cheap price to pay and totally worth it considering what you get.

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 07:27:20 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;713083
And, btw, I've been following this really close so if you think I'm taking this too seriously its because if the developer take outside advice too seriously they may make a mistake that costs us the future of the OS.

I'm just aware of a few things you aren't that are going on behind the scenes right now.

You really need to leave this topic alone and let the MorphOS developers decide how to continue forward.


OK, you are in the loop, you know the secret handshake and all that. Good for you.

It's great if the MorphOS developers are thinking about the future. Otherwise there won't be any, rest assured about that. I won't "just happen".

Because whether you like it or not, nobody has been making viable PPC desktop or laptop systems since apple quit doing it more than *half a decade ago*. That changed the entire focus of the PPC architecture. Forever. There is no need for you to "hush" me about this, it's perfectly obvious to everyone with half a brain, and talking about it, or not talking about it, isn't going to change a thing.

Nobody is going to make viable desktops or laptops based on PPC ever again. A-eon spent $400,000 in making a $3,000 system using a dead-end CPU performing like a $150 second hand Mac from 2005. I have a list of the about the 50-70 known owners of that system. 99% of them already had an OS4 system. Acube is making HW in batches of 30 units; they have one product performing like cell phone *two generations ago*, and one product performing like *last generations*. Without all the fancy accelerator controllers for multimedia that cellphone CPU's has, of course. A "cheap" system is still $1,000 including tax etc, and you can't even play a common HD video clip on it. Some OS4 dreamers are looking at various recent PPC chips, with 4-12 cores or whatever, made for routers etc (designed with a totally different scope than desktops) which will make really good (NOT!) sense for a single-core only OS, especially when put on custom motherboards produced in batches of 30 units, costing you your right kidney and your first born. This is all the "future" you can hope for when *not* going "mainstream", hardware wise.

So OK, you were right, you were perfectly "on topic", which is "Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW": No matter how you twist and turn it, you will (at some point, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but inevitably at some point) have to face the two options I mentioned above:

  • Diminish (and eventually die) on current aging/dying Mac HW, or on some kind of custom niche PPC HW made by Acube or A-eon, with less and less users and developers (as long as they even bother making new HW, where is the OS4 netbook BTW?)
  • Take whatever measures needed to move to some mainstream platform that is still advancing. That would probably indeed mean a drastic change to the OS "under the hood", especially regarding the current Amiga compatibility we are enjoying today (it would probably mean a "new" OS, even if it will look and feel the same), but it could also mean a lot of positive things that simply aren't possible today
There aren't any other options! Sure, the current Mac platform is great! I like it a lot, I can't stress that enough! It's cheap, fairly powerful, and good quality. Any Amigan should get one, MorphOS truly is Amiga done right, and it shines on those Mac's. I am looking forward to MorphOS 3.2, and then 3.3, etc, for it. But like it or not, this HW platform can only go in one direction, and that's not forward. A G5 port would perhaps be cool, but it would only delay the inevitable. And neither Acube nor A-eon (or any similar) can provide the answer to the problem.

And hey, that is not *my* fault, it's just the way it is, so don't hit me for merely stating out the obvious, which most people sees clearly anyway!

Now hold on to your hat in that storm, Iggy!

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 07:40:33 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;713088
No I do not want to say anything bad about it. It is a very good OS for the hardware it is designed for. Propably much better optimized than Aros and with a very good 68k integration. Nothing bad to say about it. But a complete architecture change is not very propable (because of needed resources)


AFAIK an architecture change could be done fairly quickly if you "lower your standards" (or rather: altering them). This could also open up for "raising your standards" in other areas, by incorporating features not really possible on Amiga otherwise, like true SMP, true MP, true 64-bit, etc. A whole set of new challanges for the OS developers. Those things would probably take time, but I doubt an actual "migration" would be very difficult if you are prepared to start with a clean slate in terms of Amiga backwards compatibility. And you could always do like AROS, and incorporate some transparent UAE.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 10:43:24 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;713108
few others who failed to deny some pretty accurate guesses by Andreas Wolf


Got a link?

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 11:13:17 AM »
I agree with itix, laptop support was what MorphOS needed, not just one more desktop (albeit more powerful).

This has also lead to the development of completely new OS components, like battery/energy management including CPU throttling, temp management, multi-finger track pad support, etc. WiFi stack and SW is being worked on AFAIK. Stuff like this made MorphOS a laptop capable OS, and iBook support is said to come with the next OS release, making MorphOS on laptops even more available. And the work being put into 3D support for PowerBooks will also benefit previous desktop models. I think they focused their efforts in the best way possible.

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: Mainstream HW vs. Custom Niche HW
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 02:36:43 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;713386
Nope. Mostly PM with people who wouldn't appreciate being quoted. So I shouldn't have mentioned it.


The joke kind of went over your head there, didn't it? ;)

:lol:
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)