Aos 3 -> aos 4

[takemehomegrandma]

@HotRod

I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?

You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.

Well, in order to make my point I'd like to start with a short summary of the Amiga evolution past OS 3.0:

1992 – Amiga OS 3.0 is released

1994 – Commodore stumble (and eventually falls in 1995). But they manage to get Amiga OS 3.1 in various ways, and distribution was further formalized by Escom when they took over in 1995.

1995-1996 – In the shadow of Commodore’s bankruptcy, a community driven effort to create an Open Source version of Amiga OS is formed; the Amiga Replacement Operating System (later “Amiga Research Operating System”, and even more later simply “AROS”). First AROS release announcement on usenet is from Aug 1996

1999 – Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc releases a new version of Amiga OS which contained many of the “hacks and patches” that most Amiga users had had to resolve to in order to get their Amiga’s to function in a more modern way.

2000 – The first public version of MorphOS is released for free download. It ran exclusively on Amiga’s back then, but the target was set for the upcoming Pegasos PPC computer.

2000 – Later that year a new version of Amiga OS is being released by Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc.

2004 – Hyperion releases the first “Pre-Release” version of their OS4.




Today and the future – We now have 4 different operating systems that people in the community uses daily; Amiga OS 3.x, AROS, MorphOS and OS4.

OS4 is PPC only, and Hyperion representatives has on numerous occasions publically denounced any kind of port of their OS to a different architecture than PPC. MorphOS is also tied to PPC, but nothing has been said about future migration. AROS is multi-platform and open source, which seem appealing to some.

But you can’t forget the fourth (or should I say *first*?) platform; the original (real) Amiga! And I think you could draw a line between this one, and the other three, since the other three is about SW only, while the first one also weight heavily on Amiga hardware. Enthusiasts of this flavor has continued to improve their OS in various ways (like we always did), and AROS is already helping somewhat here, and will continue to help even more in the future. We can call this branch "Amiga OS +", or why not "AOS+" or similar, in order to *not* breach anyones Trade Mark IP. Its about evolving the 68k Amiga OS.

In addition to Individual Computers (and others) efforts of bringing new technology standards and interfaces to the Amiga computers, there are also Various interesting HW projects are being made to *reimplement* the Amiga (like Minimig) and also *improve* it and *evolve* it (like Natami). These are real Amiga's, *not* in name only (in fact - not in name at all), but in *technology*.

And which one of the OS flavors will be of interest to these Amiga enthusiasts?

Well, from the Q&A section of Natami:
Q: "What operating systems will the Natami support?"
A: "Our target for supported operating systems are exclusively Amiga OS and AROS. All the clever features of the original Amiga hardware and Natami hardware can never be properly used by Linux."

So they want an OS that *fully* makes use of the new (and existing) Amiga hardware.

And no – "Amiga OS" does *not* mean OS4, for obvious reasons. Hyperion’s OS4 isn’t even on the map for these people, it couldn’t be more irrelevant. What is relevant is to continue to build on and improve the Amiga OS that works on real Amigas!

Hope you understand better now.

[takemehomegrandma]

WTF was that?! Ehm... I asked because I wondered why and that was it? I know the history so I don't need a lesson. What do you want me to understand? I wonder why some are still using AOS 3.

I think you read things that aren't there.

The "history lesson" is part of the explanation to why some are still using Amiga OS 3.x. It would have been equally relevant if you would have asked "Why haven't you jumped on the AROS train yet" or "Why haven't you jumped on the MorphOS train yet", and the answer would be the same: They want to use Amigas as they always have. They want the Amiga hardware, they want the Amiga OS that runs on it and maximizes the use of it. And they want to evolve the OS by patches and add-ons, updated stuff, etc. Isn't there some kind of effort of modernizing Amiga OS 3 by using components from AROS? I think I recall something about that. This will increase as soon as Natami gets here (if it ever gets here). A new, completely unofficial quasi-version of AmigaOS 68k is likely to evolve (what I called "AOS+" above), containing a mixture of real Amiga OS 3.x components and new ones from AROS and the Natami teams (like: "First install OS 3.x, then install this service pack on top of it that replaces, updates and adds new features. Then reboot!").

Some Amiga 68k users are happy with the way things are, some wants to expand and modernize the HW by add-ons that still comes from Individual Computer (and Elbox?). Natami will evolve the Amiga 68k. It won't bring it "up to date", but I don't think that matters to these people, they are more into the technology and retro hobby aspect of things. And that is my point.

MorphOS, AROS and OS4 is a completely different thing that I don't think appeal to these people. The goal for these three OS's are more to be able to do real 2011 things; like playing 2011 level media files, use the Internet in a 2011 kind of way, etc, but in an Amiga environment, and still being able to use most of the Amiga applications. One of the most central and fundamental goals of all three of these OS's was about "breaking free" from the old Amiga hardware and its limitations in a modern era context.

But even then OS4 is probably the least appealing of the three:

- AROS main feature is that it runs on x86 and other platforms.

- MorphOS is the one that has evolved the furthest, by far; it has the best features, the most features, the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, and although its bound to PPC hardware, it runs on extremely cheap, mainstream HW of very high quality and is as powerful as the PPC desktop HW ever became. In that sense, MorphOS certainly represents the very peak of Amiga evolution this far.

- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows), performance comparisons between OS4 and MorphOS shows that OS4 comes far behind, and its hardware base consists of low volume custom HW with *risky* long-time support situation; the Sam is severely overpriced and underspecced, the X1000 will be even more overpriced (if it ever gets here, which looks more and more doubtful).

In fact, OS4's main attraction is its access to the trade marks "amigaone" and "amigaos4". And evidently this is very important to a certain breed of people, and they are probably the ones that gets the most confused when Amiga Inc starts awarding trade mark licenses to the left and right, they are the loud ones screaming "foul" as soon as a Commodore USA thread pops up in the forums.

But the rest of us; the MorphOS users, the AROS users, heck even the OS3 "classic" users that are hoping on some kind of Amiga evolution through Natami and AROS, has gotten over the trade mark bullshit a long time ago. We left that behind. I'd even say that most of us are tired of all the crap that surrounds it. We don't need Ben Herman's or Bill McEwen's approval of what to like and use as our "Amiga". We are more interested in the technology, the features, and having a decent bang for the buck ratio. And this is where OS4 fails, in every single point of measurement.

The "NG" OS's are obviously not of very big interest to the Amiga 68k crowd, but even if they were, then OS4 would still be the most irrelevant of all three of them. It's the one being furthest away. It's *not* like there is a logical "Amiga OS 3" -> "OS4" upgrade path, despite the somewhat confusing naming of the products, and that's why the formulation of your initial question was a little funny. Heck, I'd say that OS4 is completely redundant to anyone not interested in "amigaone" and "amigaos4" trade mark stickers.

Hope you understand better now.

[takemehomegrandma]

hmm can't be that: Perhaps you mean this linux^h^h^h^h^hamiga app called timberwolf?

What's up with this "dll hell" anyway? Doesn't sound very "amiga" to me.

This is just wrong. This is not amiga. I'll take os and apps that use proper amiga libraries and not some kind of half-as*ed shared object implementation borrowed from linux (on os4 they aren't even shared, each opener gets their own copy.. Fail!). It just can't work without package manager with proper dependency system. This will end badly: "its just a case of duplicating the listed sobjs in the sobjs drawer and renaming them to match. Once you have done this try again." or "just make a duplicate copy of it and rename the duplicate to the above and repeat with the other files which are missing.".

Proper shared libraries with per-opener static data are well possible as is proven by numerous such libraries existing in for example in amigaos 3.x and morphos. Why amigaos4 "designers" chose this lazy route with non-shared shared objects is beyond me.

O M G ! ! !

:rolleyes:

[takemehomegrandma]

I hope some developers make a new m68k microprocessor. I still like single-core CISC. :hammer:

I think it will be called 68050 (or was it 68070?), when/if it ever gets ready. Check the Natami's website...

[takemehomegrandma]

Regardless during those 18 months we've:

• Released MorphOS 2.5
• Released MorphOS 2.6
• Released MorphOS 2.7
• Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
• Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
• Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.

Not fast enough for you?

Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.

OS 4.1.3 is coming any year now...

[takemehomegrandma]

Sorry if its off-topic, but does OWB MorphOS have a user-agent switcher?  some websites I use often complain and disallow access unless you are using a "correct" browser.

Are you talking about spoofing as another browser? Of course, Fab's browser can do that, with different settings for different URL's even!

(From above: "- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse")

[takemehomegrandma]

D'oh!  well then, now I know

And yes, spoofing, although I usually connotate "spoofing" as a negative act, whereas me trying to access my bank and being told by their POS website "We only support IE" makes me hot under the collar.

Indeed "spoofing" is very useful, and the key to access some online functions that's out there, like uploading videos to utube. Or using the online version of Microsoft Office under MorphOS.

Fab's browser is *a real* browser, that you *can use for real*. No bullshit. It was really funny to see this MorphOS browser displaying CSS3 better than Internet Explorer (until IE9 was released).

[takemehomegrandma]

First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.

All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?

Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.

Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.

As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.

Hope you understand better now.

[takemehomegrandma]

Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.

Hope you understand better now.

Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now...

[takemehomegrandma]

Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon

"Sad and jealous?"

Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.

How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?

Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?

[takemehomegrandma]

Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?

Yes, quite sure.

But I think you should ask someone else to explain it to you. You aren't really receiving so there is little point in sending. You never understood better. Tune in to the gospel channel, and enjoy. Over and out!

[takemehomegrandma]

"We where here before you"?

Yes we were, and it seems a history lesson *was needed* after all:



An early version of MorphOS was first released to the public in September 2000.

An early version of OS4 was first released to the public in May 2004. Almost *four full years* behind, and by then MorphOS had reached version 1.4 or something like that.

The ones who have been here the longest, is the Amiga users (the left column in the picture), who has been here the whole time.

Ehm... I got my amiga -87 and been a user since then.

Well, I got my Amiga *before* you then :p, and I'm also still here! As are many other MorphOS, AROS and OS4 users. I still have a couple of Amigas (2x A1200 and 1x A600). But that wasn't the point.

[takemehomegrandma]

The truth hurts those holding the short stick and some of them just can't stand hearing or reading the truth, so they are reduced to being like HotRod.  Sad little men with a complex that feel compelled to lash out with insults and lies.

With this thread HotRod must hold some kind of record in how many users one single individual can insult and piss off in one single thread. In retrospect it seems like trolling and provoking was the real purpose of the thread. If so - mission accomplished!

[takemehomegrandma]

Aha, I didn't know what you meant by that statement, if you meant here as in being the first to register at amiga.org . Sure I know that work began on MOS first, I ran 0.4 on my CSPPC. Like I said, no history lesson needed even though it seems that you're always prepared to give one. Are you sitting there prepared with that picture and some text that you copy and paste in case someone says something not being right about the amiga history?

MorphOS was here a long, long time before OS4. Historical revisionism is a common phenomenon in groups with totalitarian or religious tendencies, and the only way to fight this is with *facts*. So yes, I will provide the true picture whenever you try to push your edited version of history, as you tried a few pages back.

[takemehomegrandma]

Lol. You asked why people on OS3.x hadn't moved over to OS4.x and people from all sides answered your question and quite honestly with the exception of yourself, the "trolls" have been courteous and polite in explaining their thought processes as to why they either kept with 3.x or picked an alternative.

Wilful ignorance sir, you haz it.

Well, everyone not singing the Hyperion OS4 gospel is a "troll", that's their definition of the word as proven many times in this very thread. They themselves have a free pass to behave in the most insulting manners, and calling *others* "troll" while doing it. :rolleyes: