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Author Topic: What the F***!  (Read 57856 times)

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Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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What the F***!
« on: January 11, 2011, 08:38:49 AM »
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx

Sorry if it has been brought up recently, but...seriously.

WTF mayn.
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 08:38:30 PM »
Wow!  I started a fire!  Sorry!  That's what I get for posting after a beer or three and finding that site after reading a thread on Geek Hack (The Commodore 64 "clone" will most likely have Cherry Blues in it, which is actually really cool).  It just felt like Twilight Zone-ish, as what or who is that market for?  Someone who wants to run Linux while typing on a C64 lookalike?  I wasn't trying to go all h8ter on it, but it was sort of a "Where the hell has this been hiding, and why aren't they even addressing their core fanboi market at all?"
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 09:14:24 PM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;605778
natami!? Nothing to get excited about... at least for me. A slightly faster 68K, again completely unsuited for modern home computing... And for a lot of money, if it is ever finished and released.

OK now this statement is irksome.  Most home users do two things: Look at pictures and surf the web.  Linux isn't a great gaming platform not because of the bazaar, but because of DirectX calls and the domination of DirectX over OpenGL.  Amiga isn't a great internet browser because of a lack of a good modern browser and extensions.  I was surfing the net, playing movies in mplayer, listening to MP3s in xmms on a pentium I (not much faster than the NatAmi specs out at) running debian shortly after my 1200 went south.  Most of us oldies have seen the transition.  i hardly game on my PC anymore because the console market is as good these days, and in fact, the ports often go the other direction now (console to PC).  I know dudes who make it a point to use only P1s and 486s even running Win95. Granted, they're freaks :D If you can survive on a 486 for most tasks, you sure as hell could on a NatAmi.
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 09:20:29 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;605882
This has to be the most rabidly contentious thread yet. AmigaOS, OSX, Windows, Linux - what's the difference?

I think its the desire for better "genetic diversity" so to speak.  Amiga was the "whole tamale", from hardware to software to end user.  These CUSA machines are just the wrapper.
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 09:29:52 PM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;605897
Your average user today browses internet, plays flash/Java games, soon will also run in-browser 3D games(I'm eagerly awaiting Star Trek: Infinite Space :afro:), watches youtube videos... none of that is possible on any amiga(like) system.

But sure, if you're are a retro-user... I agree Natami will tick all the right boxes :)

Or any "modern" system today.  This is the cloud-type world, where your tablet of choice logs in and accesses your content.  The OS becomes "meaningless" to the end user- the 3D tv you bought is the monitor, some set top box is the gateway, and your tablet the controls.  When you go somewhere, the tablet comes along and checks in on the 4g network.  But for all of us old curmudgeons who'll have to maintain the Emerald Curtain, how much power do we need to just DO WORK?
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 09:51:30 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;605924
Yeah, like I want to buy into that scam. Cloud computing? Halarious! I should place everything on the internet, why? So I can continue to pay for something I could easily do at home?
Social networking, internet access, etc. - yeah that I can see paying for those. But doing word processing via an internet connection? No, that's just dumb.

How much power do I need? As much as I can get because there will always be some app to waste it on. I'll leave it to you (and others that think like you) to buy the intentionally limited hardware.

The cloud is inevitable for most users.  People will pay for convenience and instant access to the web from whatever easily portable device they have.  I watch people every day word process on ipads and google docs.  its here already.  Don;t shoot me for pointing out the blatantly obvious.  The simple fact is that you ARE the freakish minority these days.  When a RTS like SC2 comes to a console and the top world player is some ADHD tweek who can zerg rush with the kinect faster than you can type, its game over desktop.  It just so happens that there are other Freakish minority members as well, the ones who like squeezing out the most of their silicon.  No need to get so weird about it.  It is about the MASS market- and we all ain't in it by a damn sight.

EDIT: Powermac Quicksilver w/ 1.8Ghz Sonnett CPU card, 1GB memory,  Radeon  9200 video card, and SB Live Audio card - running MorphOS 2.7 and  Ubuntu...Not trying to be a dick, but you realize that this setup is already way behind the power curve, right?
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 10:01:23 PM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;605929
I don't think I'll ever succumb to the cloud computing idea. I like my important stuff to be near me, thank you very much. :)

I "succumb" to it every day!  Picasa...flickr...gmail...its great to have data redundancy for free what would cost me thousands at home to set up as secure a backup/storage plan.
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 10:24:51 PM »
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 05:38:52 AM »
*looks at his P4 daily driver....

Garbage?  I can play 1080p matroskas on it...geforce 7000...I can code java in eclipse and python in vim.  I could also do that on a MorphOS box.  I'll toss the P4 when it is absolutely finished.  Part of the love I get from Amiga old skool is saving silicon from someone's melt-down shop in Bangladesh.  I had fired up a copy of memacs that came on my A2000-it was fine!  Loved it, in fact.  My code looks just as pretty on it as it does on this machine.  Of course, I have no way of getting it OFF my a2000, but all in due time.  It's what makes me happy.
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 06:47:49 AM »
Quote from: Belial6;606050
I never understood the pride of using old PC hardware.  Get yourself a Kill-A-Watt, and measure how much it costs you to run those beasts.  My Core 2's have completely paid for themselves with electricity savings over their predecessors, while running way faster.  Heck, my the Core 2 and Atom HTPCs I replaced my satellite receivers with last April are just about to hit the payoff point.

I've played around with the numbers, and even with my computers completely unplugged my electric bill barely moves.  Considering if I bought a new high end machine for each processor changeover (I'll say 2- one for core2 or quad extreme and one for i7 or Phenom) at a couple grand a pop I still haven't covered that cost in electricity by a loooong shot.  I doubt there is much power draw difference between a p4 and a core2.  Now either of those compared to the A2000...

EDIT:  I'll tell you what DOES affect my electricity bill--teenagers.  I come home- every light on in the house plus the bathroom fans, them staring into the back of the refrigerator with the door wide open for god knows how long..."Dude, there's nothing to eat!"
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 06:50:11 AM by TheBilgeRat »
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 04:23:56 PM »
Quote from: Belial6;606053
My Athlon X2 with an nVidia video card drew 190 watts peak and idled at 160 watts.  My quad core Core 2 with Intel X4500 peaks at 60 watts and idles at 40.  My Revo media PC with nVidia Ion peaks at 20 watts and idles at 5.

Sleep didn't really work well with the Athlon, so it basically ran 24/7.  That put it's power usage at ~115kwh/month.  At the California rate of $.037/kwh, it cost ~$43/month to run.  Sleep works much better on my Core 2, so it run ~16 hours a day.  That put's it's power usage at ~24kwh/month costing ~$9.  That gives me a savings of $34/month.  Everything in the machine is faster, including the video, and the system cost only $500.  That means replacing the machine took 14 months to pay for itself.  Now, I realize that some place pay a third for electricity than we do, but even then a P4 would easily pay for it's own replacement.  It would just take a few years instead of 1.

The Revo's atom is as fast as a P4, and the video is better than anything that came in a P4.   Even if your in one of those amazing places that sell you electricity at $0.10/kwh, it would take in the range of a year to replace the P4.

My wife's brand new laptop with an i5 draws 30-50 watts, and only cost $700.  I have no idea where you spend $2k on computers.  Even most Macs don't cost $2k.

Edit:
OK, I reread your post.  Your comparing apples to oranges.  You don't replace a P4 with a high end PC.  You replace a P4 with a $200 net top.  You will get equal performance, and a massive drop in electric usage.  Why would you feel the need to buy a high end computer if a P4 is even usable?  A $500 PC will give you massive speed ups over a P4.

Well, there's part of it- Cali electric rates :)

I will buy another high end computer here whenever they can demonstrate that it 1.) Will run games that I want to play that I can't already on a PS3 or 360 (so far that's a negative--WOW doesnt "wow" me and SC2 doesn't interest me either) 2.) is a RADICAL departure from current methodology or 3.) makes VIM telepathically controlled.  Oh, and 4)  My P4 blows up.  It is my experience that without programs that make use of 64bit arches and OSes that do the same, the flasgship of 32bit x86 has less compatibility issues, runs more software, and has already paid for itself.  Now, if I was an artsy-fartsy "film and picture editor" the answer would be simple-buy that 2 grand apple cinema display and a new MacPro.  That would run arounf 4 grand.  If I was a SC2 whore, I'd spend right around 2 grand for a mobo, phenom 2 Black, as much ram as I could stuff in, the fastest SSD, Realforce Torpe keyboard....Hell the keyboard is 260...(as much as the new Dell I have downstairs.)
 

Offline TheBilgeRatTopic starter

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Re: What the F***!
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2011, 11:30:01 PM »
this thread has ranged so far over so many topics.  I think it is just the fact that we as tech consumers and Amiga users in particular do not like being spoonfed the same old crap in a new wrapper.  None of us would be having these conversations if there was NO hope.  We'd throw all our eggs into one basket and call it good.  The fact that NatAmi and X1000 are even existing as real silicon speaks volumes to that desire.  Whether their business model (or lack thereof) is any good is a moot point.  I think my main WTF on the CUSA website was "Just who the hell are these people?  Have they spent a day on Amiga.org debating fiercely with Piru over MorphOS vs AOS4?  Have they thrown down on the x86 vs PPC debate?  Are they diehard AROS fans?"  These debates get so passionate on here because most of us actually care about capturing that je ne sais quoi we had when we first used Amiga.  Even in a perfect world where I owned all the rights to the Amiga/Commodore intellectual property and a gazillion euros (better exchange rate vs the US dollar :D ) to spend on resurrecting the brand, I would consult the community first...even if doing that is like trying to bathe 100 cats while wearing a speedo.