Reinvent the OS cont

[kolla]

Hohum, you have much experience with Linux on m68k? It always worked well for me. There is both NetBSD and OpenBSD for Amiga too, at least old releases.

[kolla]

Yes, probably more than you, as I have been using 68000 processors since they were introduced.
And while linux may work for you, I'm not into pain.
Further, I've seen older implementations of Minix for the 68K that worked better than most Linux distros (and Minix isn't even meant to be anything other than an educational OS).

Yeah well. I have used Linux on Amiga since its birth so to speak, first kernel was 0.87 iirc, around same time NetBSD 1.0 came around too, in 1994-95. Anyways, for more than a decade I had a little park of 68k machines running Linux, which I used quite extensively for all kinds of purposes, web servers, my personal mail, file servers for my AmigaOS systems, IRC servers etc. and building packages for my private Gentoo/m68k effort (an effort I intend to reignite soon). Linux/m68k vs AmigaOS I do have quite a lot of experience with. In general, on Linux, all kinds of IO is faster. Filesystem (I use ext4, but it was aleays true) access is faster, and due to the way Linux caches filesystem, it acts much smoother than most FS under AmigaOS. Networking is not only faster, but way more reliable and feature rich on Linux. And of course online security is way better too.

That you think Minix works better on Amiga tells me two things - you have not spent much time using either.

[kolla]

And in general about UNIX on 68k, a small list from the top of my head, of projects whos people thought 68k was well suited for un*x usage.
* SunOS
* Domain/OS
* NeXT
* A/UX
* Atari SRV4
* AMIX
* Linux
* NetBSD
* OpenBSD

[kolla]

There is something on the works; Delicate Linux and on May, 29 he started to port it to Amiga.

Nice. I have also used OpenWRT earlier to build small uClibc based boot images for Amiga and Macintosh. For general use though, glibc is more convenient, albeit way more bloated

[kolla]

And...to get past this point of contention, drop reentrancy as a goal.
The other points remain valid.
Like DragonFly, a nested kernel with a micro kernal core.
Basic rules that eliminate poor coding techniques that greatly complicate debugging (like self modifying code).

Oh lordy, please go on fantasizing about the DragonFly "micro kernal", it sounds orgasmic!

[kolla]

Iggy, I have issues with you calling the DragonFly kernel a micro kernel, it is not a micro kernel design, it is a hybrid at best, with some features most known from micro kernel environments. If DragonFly is a micro kernel, then FreeBSD is too, or any *ix that pushes features out in userland. Do you consider Darwin a micro kernel OS? It used to be.

I find it funny how DragonFly keeps coming up as a buzz word among amiga users, but how many of those mentioning it has actually used it?! For the record, I have, at work even, evaluating HAMMER for possible use in production environments. Eagerly awaiting HAMMER2 to evaluate for a possible multimaster cluster FS solution.

[kolla]

if there was a community built 68k computer, what bus do you think would be good to use?
Vme, zorro, s100, etc.

usb3

[kolla]

BTW - You all ARE aware that Amiga OS is considered a micro kernel OS, aren't you?

No it is not, it is an exokernel, that much is obvious.

[kolla]

This is depressing, nothing new here since the 90ies

[kolla]

Iggy, what market place? All Android devices are Linux, all ChromeOS devices are Linux, most SOHO networking gear, NAS etc are Linux... embedded Linux is taking over the world. And if it isn't Linux, it is a BSD, all iOS devices, OSX, JunOS, more SOHO equipment, storage solutions... pretty much the entire world is running on various types of *ix.

Your 1% is meaningless!

[kolla]

I guess I meant traditional computers.

Those all are traditional computers in all respects. HPC, telecommunication, networking, servers, terminals - all levels of computing is dominated by unix derivatives.

But these days other devices have blurred that line.

No, they are the same type of devices, nothing fundamental has changed.

I probably browse the internet on my phone more often than on my computer (and yes, its an Android phone).
And Android seems to have a lock on all tablets that aren't made by Apple.
Further, OSX is BSD, sort of anyway, although I'd tend to place it in its own category (as I would iOS).

Why? There is nothing fundamentally different between OSX and any other commercial UNIX, there is nothing fundamentally different between an iPad with iOS and a Zaurus with Qtopia.

If you start looking for UNIX everywhere you'll soon realize that even Windows has some UNIX legacy.

Oh really - apart from the old TCP/IP stack that has long since been replaced, what would that be? Didn't we all agree 20 years ago that NT is VMS with buttons?

But does that make it good?

Yes it does.

[kolla]

So, enjoy Hurd!

[kolla]

Don't tell me you are a OpenVMS Galaxy operator as well - what on earth do you mean by "VMS has become similar to UNIX"?!

[kolla]

And UNIX is not as much "a product" as it is a set of standards, APIs and even a philosophy for how operating system components should work. Interoperability is at its center, and sure, anyone can deviatevin any directions they want, as long as they gather up around those standards and APIs that pretty much define UNIX - because it is the best for everyone, being different for the sake of being different has no merit whatsoever.

I have personally experience with Linux on m68k outperforming AmigaOS on basic things like disk and filesystem access, and networking, and on MacMini doing video playback outperforming that of MorphOS, and all I did was optimizing kernels and gcc parameters for the respective hardware, compiling everything myself instead of using generic Debian.

[kolla]

Yeah well, operating systems are not developed out of creativity, but out of necessity and productivity. Even AmigaOS - very little creative about it.