CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers

[commodorejohn]

You can either get new people or serve only those that are already die hard people. The only way to get new people is in the mainstream. That is where they are. Old people that once was here and now is there - is there.

I disagree, but even if that's true, it's simply not going to work trying to break back into the mainstream. The only people who still hold enough affection for the Amiga, 20 years after Commodore's bankruptcy, that it would impact their purchasing decisions are the people who liked it for what it was, not for its name. Many of those people are right here in this community; those that aren't, if by some chance they ever hear about CUSA, are going to look into it and go "what the hey is this?" because it's not only not what they remembered, it has absolutely nothing in common with what they remembered - not even a case design! Even if there were any still interested, the sheer absurdity of the pricing would put them off.

They can't retain old die-hards by abandoning everything that the die-hards value, and they can't entice new people with a name that means nothing to the majority and prices that would be off-putting to the entirety. It simply doesn't work that way.

I suspect he is better then the other a--holes who would shut down every Commodore website. Sued everyone of the sites with the logos, and had them all thrown in jail and fined for statutory violation of $25,000 per violation and legal precedence is that each day a violation occured would be a violation up to statutes of repose.

Well lets assume 2 years. That is 365x2 or 730 days of violations. Each day a violation. 730 violations at $25,000 and a year in jail for each violation. Imagine 730 years of imprisonment and $18+ Million dollars in fines each. That would be pretty gnarly. Then throw in the copyright violations.

That would be an grade AAA a--hole.

It is a good thing Barry is not one of those.

Okay, has anyone actually tried to do that? What grounds would they do it on? "He's probably better than a hypothetical complete monster with no regard for fair-use laws and who has the run of the courts such that they can impose utterly impossible penalties that wouldn't last ten seconds in an appeals court, and who probably eats babies" is not exactly a glowing recommendation.

[commodorejohn]

10,000 units at $595 is 5.95 Million in sales. Then you have the Vic and other models. So, if you figure about $6-8 million in revenue. How much sales does jens make a year on all his products.

Where are you getting those figures? According to Barry they produced 10,000 cases, but there's no information indicating they've sold even 1/100th of those. Hypothesizing about how much they might make, if they sold every single case they produced with at least a base configuration PC (i.e. not bare cases,) which we don't know, says nothing whatsoever about what they actually did sell.

He is one of the largest commodore/amiga hardware developers existent. The big -10 would be lucky to be between $750k-$1M. That is if they have a good year and that is usually only the one time batch pre-order that happens maybe once in 5 years with each of the developers.

The sw developers generally make $0.

Again, what basis do you have for any of these figures?

So, how do anyone make a living when you are lucky to sell 30-50 of anything.

Who said anything about making a living?

I seen this with many of the stuff produced in the Commodore and Amiga community.

These are ball park and vary. I seen this with Jens, Jim and others.

You say "ball park," I say "wild guessing with no sources to back it up."

[commodorejohn]

Okay, now where are you getting the $6-8 million figure for CUSA from? What reason do we have to believe that they sold 10,000 C64xes in the past year? Nothing from them, certainly.

[commodorejohn]

If your argument  about mainstream computers is true, then how do you explain the popularity of the Raspberry Pi?  It's NOT about beaing mainstream at all; it's about going back to the roots of where we all came from in early computing and re-inventing it for now; the Raspberry Pi has managed that and it can still perform as a NAS, play HDMI video etc. and it's dirt cheap.

Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.

[commodorejohn]

I don't believe they sold 10,000. Just my opinion, remember when Dammy said they sold over 100,000? My best guess is they sold 20-100 tops and that is beng generous. That's why no inject molding Amiga replica cases.

I agree - but that's my point. Barring a statement to that effect, I don't believe CUSA has even put a dent in the 10,000 cases they claimed to have produced...but the Pi, piffly and tiny and bare-bones as it is, sold that many in the space of mere minutes. Those folks knew what they were trying to achieve, knew who a good secondary market would be, marketed to them effectively and paid real attention to their concerns (AFAIK the only thing left to be documented for the tinkerers is the GPU API, thank you so damn much Broadcom.) As a result, they've enjoyed huge interest, such that people have stuck with them even through some frustrating manufacturing hiccups.

Barry, on the other hand, didn't understand the Amiga community coming in, didn't try to, made fun of anybody who told him that community interest generally lies elsewhere, distributed much misinformation, showed extreme unwarranted self-importance every time he posted, acted more combative the more people tried to tell him how he was mis-stepping, and ultimately just charged too much for too little in hopes that the name would make up for it, when he'd already half-alienated the people who would've been interested in the first place. He tried to cover that by saying "well, you're Not Our Target Market," but he keeps coming back - because (I theorize) we're all he's got. The world outside the Amiga community cares even less about the brand names and is far less inclined to pay large sums for unimpressive hardware.

Barry's entire time here has basically been one long session of shooting himself in the foot. He pretty much killed his business before it even got started.

[commodorejohn]

Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.   :laugh1:

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.

I don't think you read my post very carefully. My point is this: actual Raspberry Pi orders equalled the claimed production run for the C64x (to say nothing of whatever the total is for actual C64x sales) on the first day.

[commodorejohn]

Every one of those first 10,000 were sold because they had to get a second batch. The $6-8 million figure accounts for also sales of the other products as well. CommodoreUSA got a lot more media attention and public awareness and ultimately purchases then every current hardware developer in the Commodore and classic Amiga community has ever been able to muster.

Do you have a source for this? Every time I've asked about sales figures, they've declined to respond, and they certainly haven't announced anything about a second run here.

There was 250,000 C64DTVs in sold in the first batch. So, giving a reference of price difference of the DTV being 1/20th that of the initial price of the C64x. It would be reasonable that something at 20x the price is going to sell at about 1/20th the quantity.

They're entirely different markets, produced and sold in entirely different ways by entirely different companies. There is absolutely no correlation between the two. Do you have a source for any of this, or is this more making up of stuff?

If 10,000 units sold, you are talking $5,950,000 in gross revenue income. I didn't say profit. So, $6 million is a fair minimal. Lets add to that factor the other products ordered.

I'm not quibbling about the math - I'm still stuck on that "if 10,000 units are sold" bit. Have 10,000 units been sold? Where did you get that information?

There were over 6 million Commodore 8 bit and Amiga users/households world wide while Commodore was alive. There were 250,000 c64DTV solds. I think worldwide, 10,000 is reasonable.

Whether you think it's reasonable is entirely irrelevant to the question of what actually happened in the real world, sales-wise, in the past year. Do you have any insight on that question that the rest of us don't? Unfounded guesswork is not a convincing argument.

[commodorejohn]

This is what is known as speculative.

Coming from you, of all people, this is pretty hilarious. Got any numbers to back up your guesses yet?

[commodorejohn]

Grow up you sweaty, buttcrack showing, eating cold pizza and drinking jolt with your 1980s punk hair do while growing a beard techno-washouts.

Actually, my hair is strictly 1970, I only have stubble, I sweat very little, I wear pants that stay well above my waistline, and I don't drink Jolt. You know, not that that's in any way relevant to anything in this thread, but just for the record.

I know you are tired of companies using the brand. If you want it... Buy it and do as you wish. Until then, play with your toys and be content.

Uh, no. Just because I don't have the wherewithal to purchase the brand names from Uncle Bill (if he were even selling) does not mean I'm obligated to smile and nod mute approval at any yahoo who rents them.

I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.

Again, how do you even know that CUSA lives up to these criteria? We haven't seen squat for a business plan from Barry.

Barry is from a later generation and I believe Barry is not Jewish so that may play into how Jack is compared to Barry.

Uh, what? Barry is not Jewish, so it's...acceptable for him to question someone's sex life?

Barry, be careful of gaffes. There are some childish jerks in the world that would do anything to make a public scene to embarass a person in public.

Oh, there sure are! For instance, some meanie might even go so far as to quote things he's actually said on public forums!

Let's clarify. I'm not asking how often you have sex, or if you have trouble performing. We know that already because we looked.

That would be terrible if someone were to do that!

It wasn't that important except the main point to be drawn is that may influence Jack in a different manner to Barry. This isn't to say anyone is good or bad person but simply about social customs.

I don't know in what society it's customary to question someone's virility and imply you peep on their sex life in response to a question about pricing, but I sure don't want to go there.

I am sure that when we get into a heated debate this tends to happen with all of us.

Oh, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I've brought the Jews into debates where I've had to defend a guy for acting like a total pervert to a guy who just wanted to know about pricing. Happens all the time.

[commodorejohn]

Anyway, that comment of Barry seemed odd but then the question in fact might had caused some tongue and cheek sarcasm.

Uh, see, there's a thing where that was totally beyond the pale and "tongue-in-cheek sarcasm" just doesn't cut it. That's like the exact opposite of professional behavior.

In any case, Barry never so much as apologized for it.