Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[commodorejohn]

*whistles "A Pirate's Life for Me"*

[commodorejohn]

We are not motivated by anything financial to support Cloanto. We support them because they sell and continue to update an awesome Amiga Virtual Machine.

There's a big difference between supporting them and playing cheerleader for them, and the Aorg staff seems to be way on the other side of it. I don't bear any ill will towards Cloanto, but what they offer is manifestly not a simple way to get Workbench disks for classic Amigas, and whether they're supporting Aorg or not, you're quite blatantly shilling for them when it's not even relevant to the thread.

[commodorejohn]

The easiest way it purchase 1.3 and 3.1 is exactly how Transition as alluded to:
Step 1 buy Amiga Forever,
Step 2 buy a Catweasel Mk4 or Mk4+.........
In my opinion if you are a classic amiga user the Catweasel (on a PC) is worth every penny.

First off, it seems from what others are saying that the system images on Amiga Forever don't even work on a real Amiga - that's a deal-breaker right there, unless they're mistaken. Second, any solution for getting an Amiga up and running that involves buying a software package and then buying $70 worth of hardware just to get the software package onto physical media is sub-optimal - the Catweasel is a fine piece of hardware for what it is, but some of us have no need for such a thing and no desire to spend $70 on something we'd never use again.

Would you really what or need any of these version of amiga OS:  1.0, 1.1, or 1.2 1.4, 2.0, 2.04, or 2.1?.  I can maybe see wanting a version 1.0 or 1.2 roms to boot some old games but probably not the OS

Maybe, maybe not, but if nobody's going to make them legitimately available then I don't see how people can complain when they're pirated...

[commodorejohn]

It has become quite clear to me, that  for years now there has been some very dubious claims by certain parties about the ownership of Workbench 1.3 to 3.1 and it would seem that just because certain parties have claimed this that folk have taken it as the truth...

Unfortunately, that's all it takes in a lot of these situations - just make enough noise, and an ISP will jump at your say-so whether you actually own the rights to something or not (or even when it's protected by fair-use laws, as with a lot of parody material.)

Quite simply, if no one is going to offer a legal  route to obtain WB discs then there seems to be no alternative but to  obtain them illegally. Whoops ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)
If C= couldn't supply the discs 18 years ago, what chance of it happening now ?

But Fraggle! Don't you know, you can simply buy Amiga Forever! It's a high-quality emulation package! Who cares if it doesn't actually fit your needs at all!

[commodorejohn]

From what I gather, Cloanto has been playing freelance copyright police for Amiga, Inc. out of some misguided Stockholm syndrome or something. Which raises the further question of just what kind of action they could even take, beyond making noise at Franko's ISP, since they're not even the alleged rights-holders...

[commodorejohn]

Gee, it's almost like they don't actually have legal grounds for complaint...

[commodorejohn]

Just to get this straight: forcing Cloanto - which is the private Amiga hobby of two long term Amiga supporters who released their major commercial application (PPaint) for free on Aminet before Franko could even walk - into a legal battle just because they happen to disagree with his bullshit is a good thing now?

Oy, more "worship Cloanto, for lo, they are our only true friend" tripe? They're not even the alleged owners, they're just playing freelance copyright police for them out of some misguided sense of obligation. I don't have any particular ill will towards them, but if they're going to go badgering people with takedown notices, they damn well ought to have something to back it up, or it's just empty sound and fury.

[commodorejohn]

1. Cloanto can convince Franko's hoster to take down the ROMs and cut off his balls. They will have wasted their own time and ressources to deal with him, I doubt Franko's going to pay their expenses. Is there anything positive about this particular outcome?

Yes: petty freelance copyright police will have wasted time and money on a pointless activity, as they deserve.

2. Cloanto can not convince Franko's hoster. We will still not know who really owns the copyright (we already know Cloanto doesn't), Workbench disk images will still not be Public Domain and you'll still not be allowed to post links to them on amiga.org. You will still be able to ask Google and download them anyway. Perhaps I'm missing something, but where's the big achievement here?

The small achievement would be getting Cloanto to admit to having no grounds for this takedown notice. The larger one would be if it attracted the attention of whoever does hold the copyright, so that they can be dealt with, as Franko has stated all along is his intention.

[commodorejohn]

What a massive sense of entitlement some folks around here have.

Yeah, Cloanto are being such pricks about this, thinking that because they paid a license fee they're supposed to be the only game in town...but hey, whatyagonnado?

[commodorejohn]

Pricks? Little harsh don't you think? They state that they're legally and contractually obligated to do something about piracy. Have you read the private agreement between Colanto and the copyright owner? It could very well be that they forfeit their license to the material if they overlook piracy, or worse.

They certainly aren't legally obligated to do so, and while I would have some sympathy if they've signed themselves into a stupid agreement that deputizes and burdens them to do Amiga, Inc.'s work for them, the fact remains that they're still taking (vague, groundless) action against actual Amiga users on behalf of one of the vulture companies that have been the Amiga community's biggest source of problems since Commodore bit it.

[commodorejohn]

You know, I didn't start following this with any ill will towards Cloanto, but nothing says "sniveling brown-noser" like switching targets when you're called on to produce evidence...

[commodorejohn]

From the above policies of MediaFire then if Cloanto have failed to provide such evidence then MediaFire or myself can if we wish take the appropriate legal action. I have now instructed my Solicitors to contact MediaFire for the legal proof Cloanto would have had to provide for such a complaint and now await the results...

I wouldn't hold your breath. Thanks to all the scare-mongering about piracy in the early 2000s, mass-upload sites tend to jump like rabbits at the mere scent of a cease-and-desist, whether grounds are provided or not. They probably don't know any more about Cloanto's claims than you do.

As for Cloanto trying to prevent your copyright infringement.. They're protecting their investment. I would do the same.

Whether they paid for a license or not is their business - it has nothing whatsoever to do with their pissing on people who want actual Workbench disks for their actual Amigas, given that they don't even distribute working Workbench disks. People run off their mouths about how great Cloanto are and how they've been such a longtime friend of the community, but you know what? I don't care. They could be carrying the lovechild of Jay Miner himself and it still wouldn't make this action not petty and reprehensible.

There isn't much to know about copyright. If you don't have a license then you can't distribute a copyright work. Just because you can't find someone to give you a license is no excuse.

Fuck that. If they can't be bothered to give so much as one token response to an honest inquiry about the status of their copyright, then I don't see why anybody should care about stepping on their toes.

[commodorejohn]

Ah yes, forgot all about this excellent FAQ cloanto has set up. See this:

An interesting read. At the very least, it lets us know (in the absence of Cloanto having ever made any posts in this thread) that they're very, very sorry:
or, more              regrettably, it could escalate all the way to the ISP and to              local computer crime authorities. When this happens, we consider this a              failure, and we feel very badly about this.
See, Franko? They feel really bad about it.
We believe that ROM and operating system piracy hurt emulation. Please consider what happened to so many emulators     for other systems,
You mean the emulators that are now free and unmolested because companies without such a burr up their ass realized it wasn't actually the end of the world? Has this page been updated since 1997?
It does not cost much to     ask
but you may never get any reply at all, in which case you should avoid ever taking any action, even if you have to wait until the end of time.

The difference in this particular case is that it is Franko's stated goal to prove that the Workbench disks are PD. Cloanto simply have to react to this. Or as Piru put it: They're a sensible business, so they have to protect their investment.

Do they? They don't distribute Workbench disk images for actual Amiga hardware, nor are they licensed to do so. What possible investment could they have in this?

[commodorejohn]

And Franko didn't bother to ask them, as they have requested in their FAQ... Have you contacted them?

They don't have the rights to it! Why would you contact them?

[commodorejohn]

They DO have rights to it, and that appears to be the problem most people have with them!

They are a licensee, not a licensor. Is that so very difficult to understand?