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Author Topic: Amiga guilt and time distortion.  (Read 23976 times)

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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« on: April 14, 2011, 09:31:55 PM »
Quote from: runequester;631638
In doing so, they hope they can somehow dispel the illusion other users had of having an interesting discussion about amiga's, by reminding them of things every person on the planet is already aware of.
+1000 to the OP, and extra-emphatically to this bit. It's like some people here are so insecure about even using one of the x86 machines they grew up hating that they want everybody to agree that x86 is the new True Amiga, so that they'll never have been "wrong" in the first place.

Quote from: Borut;631641
Yes this is really a phenomenon. For me it seems  this are former Amiga-users went to x86 and want to convince now all  remaining that this was the only right way. Why they do so? They miss  the Amiga OS and really, really, really want that the holy Amiga  direction goes the x86 way so they need not buy new HW because they are  somehow not satisfied with their existing HW/OS possibilities.
This.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 11:24:36 PM »
Quote from: B00tDisk;631664
You can cry about it, you can hold up this or that datasheet from nearly 20 years ago but until you build a time machine that can warp the world back to 1990, that's where any arguments about what CPU is best for the desktop remains.
A fair point, but it seems like for every obsessive fantasizing about what might have been for the 68k or what might still be for the PPC, there's an equal obsessive ranting about how x86 is, was, and always has been The Only Way, instead of just being the one main path (of many possibilities) that the desktop PC market has taken, and from my reading of the OP that's mainly what he's talking about. (Actually, it seems like there's even more of the x86-obsessed killjoys these days than the PPC delusionaries, but that might just be me.)

Yes, it's true that for horsepower x86 kicks any other desktop architecture's ass these days, but that wasn't nearly so true back in the early '90s - the 68k line was still a reasonable competitor, and PPC was a promising up-and-comer. (Though either of these might be more relevant if Commodore had put some real support behind them, instead of half-heartedly sticking in low-end 020s and 030s with a couple MB of fast RAM and letting everybody else provide the workable 040 accelerators.) As someone in another thread pointed out, the x86 didn't really clearly outpace the 68k until the Pentium Pro in 1995.

(IMHO, what the Amiga really needed by the '90s was less a new CPU architecture and more a complete overhaul of everything else. The Z3 bus was a good first step, but the new machines were still tethered to a chipset far slower than even the now-stock CPUs, unless you bought a separate video card and sound card - not good, considering that Commodore was staking basically everything on them.)
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 12:58:26 AM »
Quote from: Digiman;631683
386 VGA/SBLASTER owner buys SF2....pretty slow and unplayable. 18 months later sells it and gets 486DX66 +GRAVIS etc....suddenly old unplayable game is arcade quality. Had 256 colours but is faster and sounds better automatically.

A500 owner buyss SF2...32 colour slow rubbish....3 years later he gets a 4000/030 and loads SF2....STILL rubbish (same speed, 32 colours, SFX/music). Has to pray a good AGA version is released and buy a 2nd copy if it is ever made! No reward for his £999 investment!
You're undermining your own point. Yes, OCS/ECS Amiga games don't suddenly get better when you play them on an AGA machine. But EGA games don't get better on a VGA box, either. The only real difference is that AGA came too late in the game and didn't offer enough improvement, not that VGA was some kind of instant market-conqueror.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 01:43:58 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;631775
PC users once they did have VGA as standard on ALL games (which he took great steps to point out) and let's face it 286s came with VGA so hardly anything unusual to own a VGA 386 at the time of A500Plus or before.

The second point was ZERO CODING was required to get an immediate improvement on those said VGA games just by buying a new machine, ie unlike us they didn't have to wait for 256 colour versions to be specifically produced.
But it's a false comparison. He compared games choked by CPU weakness to games choked by chipset weakness. That's apples and oranges. If you want to compare chipset upgrades, look at the difference between lush VGA stuff and the "barely improved Tandy" stuff that dominated the EGA market. Castlevania for DOS is always going to look wonky, even if you put it on a VGA box, just like OCS Street Fighter is always going to look wonky, even on an AGA machine. CPU horsepower has nothing to do with either.

Now, it is true that VGA mass adoption was quicker and more complete than the adoption of AGA, and it's probably also true that that quick and easy overtaking of the Amiga graphics-wise was a significant contributor to its demise. I'm just saying that the initial comparison was false, is all.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:47:35 PM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 12:21:45 AM »
Speaking only for myself:

People who like the x86 do not bug me.
People who act like the x86 is the Only And Inevitable Future and anybody who would like a new 68k or PPC-based system are backwards idiots do bug me. Very much.

Simple as that.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 05:09:20 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;631942
As one of the backwards idiots that bug you, I couldn't care less about you opinion.
I'm looking forward to new 68K and PPC systems. While I have X86 hardware, I enjoy my MorphOS system much more.
Uh, I think you mis-parsed my sentence. To clarify:

People (who act like (the x86 is the Only And Inevitable Future) and (anybody who would like a new 68k or PPC-based system are backwards idiots)) do bug me.

Clearer?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 05:22:00 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;632024
Way to go, calling people backward idiots :(
Okay, I know bloodline was joking, but did I really just make things less clear in my attempt to clarify? ...bleargh. I need coffee.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 10:47:51 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;632035
The meaning I believe was "People who say that someone who wants a 68k or PPC machine are backward idiots bug me (him)"
Yep. That's what I get for posting half-asleep...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup